1995 GMC 4L60e to 4L80e Swap Help!

Hey guys. Just joined up. I heard this is the place to learn about computer tuning for the old TBI systems. Be warned, I haven't really ventured into this on my own yet, but I look forward to learning.

Here's my issue at the moment.

I have a 1995 Yukon with a 5.7L and a 4L60e. Four months ago, the trans lost third gear, so I decided to swap in a 4L80e. I did as much research as I could. Then I went for it.

I bought a used 4L80e off Craigslist. It's a 91-93 model, but it had the electronics updated somewhere along the way, so it has the newer plug. I had that trans rebuilt, so it doesn't have the Bosch Force Motors. It should basically act like the newer 94+ 4L80e's now. If you need specifics on what was put into it, I can get those.

Here we get to the dilemma. I had it swapped in, changed the wiring around, and had a custom chip burned by a reputable OBD1 Tuning garage. Now it's still in limp mode. I checked the DTC codes with TTS Datamaster, and almost every code for the transmission was showing.

I have a 16197247 ECM. I rewired the transmission according to these diagrams, sent to me by the tuning garage.

4L60e wiring:

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/...psvigdq7lx.png

4L80e wiring:

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4mskh51b.png


According to the above diagrams, 3 wires were moved. The Brown wire from ECM pin E11 was moved from pin "U" on the 4L60e wiring diagram, and put to pin "S" on the 4L80e wiring diagram.
The two wires from E10 and E2 in the ECM from the 4L60e diagram were moved to ECM pins F2 and F3 and were removed from the transmission plug (not used), and were spliced into the new Input Speed Sensor.


If you guys have any ideas or suggestions, I'm all ears. I used TTS Datamaster DM35x31, which is listed for the 94-95 5.7L trucks with a 4L80e. Do you think I should try using DM35xOD, which is for the 4L60e?

I'm at a loss as to what's gone wrong. I'm fairly certain it's either the ECM or the tune, because literally every DTC for the transmission was thrown, including some like "Solenoid B Stuck ON" and "Solenoid B Stuck OFF".



Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I'm starting to regret trying this swap, but I know it will be worth it if I can ever get this running right.

Is it possible that they screwed up the chip or it's not installed properly? Does the engine run like it should or is it in limp home mode as well? You don't happen to have a stock 5.7/4L80 MEMCAL you can swap in for testing, do you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fastacton

Is it possible that they screwed up the chip or it's not installed properly? Does the engine run like it should or is it in limp home mode as well? You don't happen to have a stock 5.7/4L80 MEMCAL you can swap in for testing, do you?

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The Engine seems to be running fine, but it had a bunch of DTC codes as well, (high idle and low idle, etc). I'm not exactly sure what limp mode for the engine does differently, but it seemed to run fine.

I don't have a memcal for that setup, but I'm thinking I might need to track one down. That's going to be tough, since the year makes it so specific.


Maybe I need to get a burner and start looking into my own .bin files and try burning my own chip.

If it has that many errors, it might be a bad chip (or installed backwards?). Did the shop say whether they had tested it? The BJDR bin on this page should work for you. http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-OE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fastacton

If it has that many errors, it might be a bad chip (or installed backwards?). Did the shop say whether they had tested it? The BJDR bin on this page should work for you. http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-OE

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I know that the Memcal unit is not backwards in the ECM. I need to take it apart and see if the chip is backwards inside the Memcal.

Obviously something with the tune is wrong. Just frustrating when it takes a week or more in turnaround time to get a fixed tune.

Thanks for the link! That's great! Unfortunately, I don't have any chip burning hardware, but if I can't get the tuner to fix this, then I'll definitely be going that route.


Just a quick general question. How long did it take you guys to learn how to burn and custom tune, and how much time did you have to pour into it?

The reason I ask, is that this build will be continuing and requiring more custom tuning, and I'm not sure how I could get the skills or knowledge to do it correctly. For now, this truck just has a Whipple supercharger making very low boost, the trans swap is the most complicated part of the setup where tuning is concerned right now. However, I also have an Edelbrock MPFI setup waiting to go on after the trans is sorted out, and I'm not sure how I would find .bin files for that setup or even start researching how to tune that on my own.

I appreciate the help!

I'm still learning, but once you have the hardware, you can burn a chip pretty much right away, just start with small changes. Download a copy of TunerPro RT (and donate if you like it) and start learning how to use it. There are a good number of posts here that have lots of info on the whys and hows of tuning, so just start reading and learn as you go.

I think its tune....Shouldn't be hard to find a 93-96 G30 old body style van with a 350 and 4L80E to rob the memcal out of for a quick test.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GMCYukonDriver

Hey guys. Just joined up. I heard this is the place to learn about computer tuning for the old TBI systems. Be warned, I haven't really ventured into this on my own yet, but I look forward to learning.

Here's my issue at the moment.

I have a 1995 Yukon with a 5.7L and a 4L60e. Four months ago, the trans lost third gear, so I decided to swap in a 4L80e. I did as much research as I could. Then I went for it.

I bought a used 4L80e off Craigslist. It's a 91-93 model, but it had the electronics updated somewhere along the way, so it has the newer plug. I had that trans rebuilt, so it doesn't have the Bosch Force Motors. It should basically act like the newer 94+ 4L80e's now. If you need specifics on what was put into it, I can get those.

Here we get to the dilemma. I had it swapped in, changed the wiring around, and had a custom chip burned by a reputable OBD1 Tuning garage. Now it's still in limp mode. I checked the DTC codes with TTS Datamaster, and almost every code for the transmission was showing.

I have a 16197247 ECM. I rewired the transmission according to these diagrams, sent to me by the tuning garage.

4L60e wiring:

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/...psvigdq7lx.png

4L80e wiring:

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4mskh51b.png


According to the above diagrams, 3 wires were moved. The Brown wire from ECM pin E11 was moved from pin "U" on the 4L60e wiring diagram, and put to pin "S" on the 4L80e wiring diagram.
The two wires from E10 and E2 in the ECM from the 4L60e diagram were moved to ECM pins F2 and F3 and were removed from the transmission plug (not used), and were spliced into the new Input Speed Sensor.


If you guys have any ideas or suggestions, I'm all ears. I used TTS Datamaster DM35x31, which is listed for the 94-95 5.7L trucks with a 4L80e. Do you think I should try using DM35xOD, which is for the 4L60e?

I'm at a loss as to what's gone wrong. I'm fairly certain it's either the ECM or the tune, because literally every DTC for the transmission was thrown, including some like "Solenoid B Stuck ON" and "Solenoid B Stuck OFF".



Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I'm starting to regret trying this swap, but I know it will be worth it if I can ever get this running right.

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I used an 02 4L80E with my 02 PCM in my Express but did the same as you with the wiring. After flashing in the 4L80E calibration it ran as it should.

Well, I've called around and none of the yards are able to say whether they have a vehicle that would have a chip for me.

I think my best bet is to either start doing my own PROM's, or send that .bin file to my tuner. I'll give him a call on Monday and see what he says.


In the mean time. Do you guys have any experience with this programmer? http://www.amazon.com/GQ-4X-Universa.../dp/B009N9HHL4

I'm thinking that it would be easier and faster for me to learn and get the proper equipment I would need rather than waiting more than a week to get a chip corrected only to have it still not be right. This truck is my daily driver. Maybe I shouldn't have messed with it, but I figured that the 4L60e dying was the perfect opportunity to swap in the far better 4L80e. I thought it was supposed to be easier than this, unless there's just something that my tuner isn't doing correctly.

Unfortunately, I have no way to know how he is programming these chips or what .bin files he is using, or I'd be able to look and find the problem myself.

Since you already have a chip adapter, it'll be easy enough to reflash the chip. The GQ-4X should work fine, but you might want to take a look at the MOATES Burn2 since it's cheaper and should work from within TunerPro. I've also had good luck with the G540, but I use my Moates APU1 for those chips since I have it. I like to recommend Moates since he's got pretty much everything you'd need and supports the tuning community very well. If your chip adapter doesn't have a ZIF socket on it, you might as well spend a couple of bucks on one of those as well.

https://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-pr....html?cPath=64

So it's my understanding that I would use this burner -> https://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-pr....html?cPath=64

Along with this adapter -> https://www.moates.net/hdr1-memcal-h....html?cPath=64

And I would be able to burn directly to the 2732A chip on my Memcal without disassembling it, right?

Is there an easier way to take the chip off the Memcal? I haven't been able to figure out how it's held on and don't want to break it. I know that I would need a UV Eraser to clear the chip, so would it hurt anything to put the whole Memcal in there?

You won't need the HDR1 since you already had a tuner burn a chip for you (I'm assuming that they used a G1 adapter along with a stock MEMCAL). The HDR1 is just to read a STOCK MEMCAL. What you'll do is remove the chip your tuner provided from the adapter and put it into the Burn2. Your '95 didn't have the 2732A chip, that's for the '7747 style systems.

Can you post a photo of what your tuner provided you? It'll be easier to help you with the specifics then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fastacton

You won't need the HDR1 since you already had a tuner burn a chip for you (I'm assuming that they used a G1 adapter along with a stock MEMCAL). The HDR1 is just to read a STOCK MEMCAL. What you'll do is remove the chip your tuner provided from the adapter and put it into the Burn2. Your '95 didn't have the 2732A chip, that's for the '7747 style systems.

Can you post a photo of what your tuner provided you? It'll be easier to help you with the specifics then.

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The only thing I was sent was a Memcal.

Exactly like this:

http://gmeprom.com/web_images/hpim2249a.jpg



I don't really want to mess with his chip. If I'm going to be burning my own tunes, then I would rather just send it back and get my money back. I paid far too much to get tunes that don't work, and then have to go through the time and expense of buying and learning the things I need to burn my own.

I have 2 more Memcals. One is a Whipple chip that came with the setup. Another is from Z-Industries, from years ago. It's probably almost as old as the truck. I would rather be able to erase the PROM on those and then burn the BJDR .bin file onto them. I already loaded that .bin onto TunerPro and took a look at the tables, just to make sure it would actually control the 4L80e.

I have no idea what .bin file is on the chip that the tuner sent me.

Thanks for all the help. I've been reading all day and my mind is just about done by now. I think I'll call it a day and tackle some more reading and research tomorrow. In the mean time, any tips or ideas would be very much appreciated. Thanks guys! Very helpful forum you've got here.

Finally got it working. Not sure if it was wiring that wasn't making contact, or maybe the computer just needed time to re-learn the new tune.

First, it was a 4L60e tune he sent me by accident. The next one was still limp mode, but was for 4L80e. I was driving it to a mechanic's shop the other day to see what his scanner could find, and on the way there, it started shifting. It's been driving normally ever since. Thanks for the help, guys. I appreciate it. Not sure what caused it to start working, but if it ain't broke, I'm not gonna try and fix it.

That's good to hear! Maybe something had gotten stuck in the valve body and a little more driving is what it needed to get everything working properly.