Vortec SA Table for 262 4.3l S-10

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06-05-2015
S10Sanity

4 Attachment(s)

Help With Vortec SA Table for 262 4.3l S-10

In the tuning process in regards to fuel I think I am just about there and now I want to start on the SA table as I know for a fact that my current spark table is not right for my set up one bit because I am lacking in power in many areas. So to help anyone out here is my set up:

1989 Chevy S-10 262 4.3 liter 1228062 ECM
Cylinders bored .30 over
New Pistons
Later Vortec Heads
Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold
Comp Cams Magnum PN 09-420-8 Cam

Intake Exhaust

Valve Lash: Hyd. Hyd.
Duration: 270 270
Duration @ .50" Lift: 215 215
Valve Lift: 0.5 0.5
Lobe Lift: 0.334 0.334
Lobe Separation: 110 Degrees
And the full valve train kit

The problem that I am having is that I cannot for the life of me find a suitable SA table to start with. I know there are Vortec spark tables that exist like the ones Dave has put on the forum. These tables are awesome but they have an Open Throttle and a Closed Throttle table and in my ECM I only have one SA Main Table. Plus my table looks nothing like any of the Vortec tables that I have seen so im a little leary of dropping in a different table. so can I just use the open throttle table? To me it looks as if this would not work? I also would like to know the best method to tuning the SA table after finding one to start with because I do not want to do anything that might damage my truck. In TunerPro there is a knock accumulator but it does not give an exact Rpm/Map location where knock is accruing. Do I need to uncheck the Burst Knock Retard Flag? Or is there a way to see where burst knock retard may occur when I start tuning the Spark table? I will attach my current bin and latest log for reference and so you can see what I have done. Thanks ahead of time. :rockon:
06-05-2015
Fast355

Quote:

Originally Posted by S10Sanity

In the tuning process in regards to fuel I think I am just about there and now I want to start on the SA table as I know for a fact that my current spark table is not right for my set up one bit because I am lacking in power in many areas. So to help anyone out here is my set up:

1989 Chevy S-10 262 4.3 liter 1228062 ECM
Cylinders bored .30 over
New Pistons
Later Vortec Heads
Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold
Comp Cams Magnum PN 09-420-8 Cam

Intake Exhaust

Valve Lash: Hyd. Hyd.
Duration: 270 270
Duration @ .50" Lift: 215 215
Valve Lift: 0.5 0.5
Lobe Lift: 0.334 0.334
Lobe Separation: 110 Degrees
And the full valve train kit

The problem that I am having is that I cannot for the life of me find a suitable SA table to start with. I know there are Vortec spark tables that exist like the ones Dave has put on the forum. These tables are awesome but they have an Open Throttle and a Closed Throttle table and in my ECM I only have one SA Main Table. Plus my table looks nothing like any of the Vortec tables that I have seen so im a little leary of dropping in a different table. so can I just use the open throttle table? To me it looks as if this would not work? I also would like to know the best method to tuning the SA table after finding one to start with because I do not want to do anything that might damage my truck. In TunerPro there is a knock accumulator but it does not give an exact Rpm/Map location where knock is accruing. Do I need to uncheck the Burst Knock Retard Flag? Or is there a way to see where burst knock retard may occur when I start tuning the Spark table? I will attach my current bin and latest log for reference and so you can see what I have done. Thanks ahead of time. :rockon:

Try the spark table I have posted on other threads here. The 4.3 is just a 350 with two cylinders chopped out and should respond to very similar tuning.

The equivalence ratio spark adjustment is the vortec method for PE. Just copy over the 1.15 or 1.20 line into your PE map. You will also need to zero out your high rpm spark adder tables.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...skhqldydp.jpeg
06-05-2015
S10Sanity

4 Attachment(s)

Okay sweet I appreciate it. So when you say PE map do you my PE spark adder table? In the Picture it shows what parameters I have to work with. I dont really have Higher RPM spark adder tables unless its a parameter named something else. Do I need to zero out any of these other tables?Attachment 9075
06-05-2015
PJG1173

sounds like you have an almost identical build to mine. I have the 266 cam. 3 things I found while tuning mine.
1. TB won't flow enough above 4750 RPM had to have mine ported to 630 CFM to keep from pulling VAC above that RPM.
2. the 4.3 injectors are way too small to fuel at WOT above 4800 RPM, currently running 91 caprice cop car injectors @ 20psi to keep duty cycle at or below 85%
3. likes 32~34* timing in 95 and 100 KPA over 3000 RPM with the PE spark set to 0.

when I started my spark table's I used one from a 4.3 CPI bin. those heads required a more aggressive spark table than the TBI ones. I still ended up adding timing. When I get a chance I'll post up my most recent bin. I'm running $0D but you should be able to get a idea where to start with yours.
06-05-2015
S10Sanity

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJG1173

sounds like you have an almost identical build to mine. I have the 266 cam. 3 things I found while tuning mine.
1. TB won't flow enough above 4750 RPM had to have mine ported to 630 CFM to keep from pulling VAC above that RPM.
2. the 4.3 injectors are way too small to fuel at WOT above 4800 RPM, currently running 91 caprice cop car injectors @ 20psi to keep duty cycle at or below 85%
3. likes 32~34* timing in 95 and 100 KPA over 3000 RPM with the PE spark set to 0.

when I started my spark table's I used one from a 4.3 CPI bin. those heads required a more aggressive spark table than the TBI ones. I still ended up adding timing. When I get a chance I'll post up my most recent bin. I'm running $0D but you should be able to get a idea where to start with yours.

That would awesome PJG1173 Thank you. When you mentioned that it like 32-34* timing in 95 and 100 KPA over 3000 with PE spark set to zero are you saying just setting PE spark above 3000 to zero or just totally zeroing out the entire table? I looked at using one from later 4.3 CPI but when I look at anything later than my truck in the ECM there are the two Main Spark Advance tables one for open throttle and one for closed and I only have one SA Table so I dont know if I can just use the open throttle table or combine the two I dunno.
06-05-2015
PJG1173

Quote:

Originally Posted by S10Sanity

That would awesome PJG1173 Thank you. When you mentioned that it like 32-34* timing in 95 and 100 KPA over 3000 with PE spark set to zero are you saying just setting PE spark above 3000 to zero or just totally zeroing out the entire table? I looked at using one from later 4.3 CPI but when I look at anything later than my truck in the ECM there are the two Main Spark Advance tables one for open throttle and one for closed and I only have one SA Table so I dont know if I can just use the open throttle table or combine the two I dunno.

Yes you will zero the whole table for PE spark advance and tune for it in the main spark table. most of the time to get a little more oomph people will bring PE in at a lower throttle position causing that table to add unwanted spark in part throttle areas of the table. I am not too familiar with the older ecu's. I always make my closed throttle match the open throttle so you may want to take the idle area from the closed throttle table and smooth it into the rest of the open throttle from a CPI BIN.
06-05-2015
S10Sanity

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJG1173

Yes you will zero the whole table for PE spark advance and tune for it in the main spark table. most of the time to get a little more oomph people will bring PE in at a lower throttle position causing that table to add unwanted spark in part throttle areas of the table. I am not too familiar with the older ecu's. I always make my closed throttle match the open throttle so you may want to take the idle area from the closed throttle table and smooth it into the rest of the open throttle from a CPI BIN.

Okay that makes sense now. Another question for you what is your method for tuning the Spark table, I mean there is a knock accumulator in TunerPro but it doesn't give the exact location in terms of the RPM and KPA so I really would not know where I was seeing the knock exactly so I would not know where to take spark out or add it in. Is there a better way to do this?
06-06-2015
PJG1173

you should be able to log Knock Retard (KR) and create a history table for it in your adx. increase timing in small increments until you get KR once you see KR then pull 2* timing. maybe someone more familiar with your ECU will chime in if I'm wrong
06-06-2015
PJG1173

1 Attachment(s)

here is the most recent bin for my engine. it is $0D with the e-fan code added
06-06-2015
ony

I cant add more than 4 degrezz to the main timming table without getting pre detenation on my 4.3. but iam running a 16144288 on a stock 1994 model vortec engine. [ to the stock timming table]
06-06-2015
Fast355

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJG1173

Yes you will zero the whole table for PE spark advance and tune for it in the main spark table. most of the time to get a little more oomph people will bring PE in at a lower throttle position causing that table to add unwanted spark in part throttle areas of the table. I am not too familiar with the older ecu's. I always make my closed throttle match the open throttle so you may want to take the idle area from the closed throttle table and smooth it into the rest of the open throttle from a CPI BIN.

I would NEVER ZERO the spark adder for PE!!!!!!! When you are at part throttle the mixture is leaner and burns more quickly. When you go to WOT and PE ramps in, your mixture is richer and burns more slowly. You will start seeing knock at part-throttle, retard the timing, and not realize your maximum performance at WOT without the PE spark adder functioning and tuned correctly. My PE is set at 40% TPS in the Express van.
06-06-2015
Fast355

Quote:

Originally Posted by S10Sanity

Okay sweet I appreciate it. So when you say PE map do you my PE spark adder table? In the Picture it shows what parameters I have to work with. I dont really have Higher RPM spark adder tables unless its a parameter named something else. Do I need to zero out any of these other tables?Attachment 9075

You do have a high rpm advance aka "Extended SA". You just have to account for the timing you are adding via that table or eliminate it. In many stock calibrations it is 5* per 1,000 rpm and the adder increases until 4,200 rpm. That is about 600 rpm or about 3* more timing.
06-07-2015
S10Sanity

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast355

You do have a high rpm advance aka "Extended SA". You just have to account for the timing you are adding via that table or eliminate it. In many stock calibrations it is 5* per 1,000 rpm and the adder increases until 4,200 rpm. That is about 600 rpm or about 3* more timing.

Okay thanks I didn't know that's what that table was. I will probably just eliminate that table then. Also I will also make sure not to zero out my PE table. If its as you have stated above im glad I didnt do it yet. Thanks again for all your help. I will post an update on how it all works.