5.7 TBI , been here done even 383 19mpg 13.2 w/1619747...easy... 1227747 I'M Stumped

This new build (same yank 4.3) BJLH w/16197427 tweaked that was fantastic for my exact same TBI Vortechs, 204/214 too many mods BEFORE the 383 that got 19mpgs and 13.2 qtr and I was thinkin I knew what I was doing. Fast forward to 1989 c1500 4.3 w/TURBO 400?!?! easy peasy... This 1227747 is a dinosaur. I've actually wiped proms for days , HAVE a AMUR it runs like ;( on and i'm not quite sure what i should do. Borrowed a ARJT complete just to check and it ran WAAAAYY better till I floored it and Then NADA. Had to clear flood it but still stranded(not far) .Question : I'm committing to the socket solder in but not quite sure about starting addreses. Still have old custom bins from before but this crazy thing has a Turbo $00 with a fuel module /ESC on top of dist module...... what to do first. disable everything but what about this weird trans slipping or TCC issue. Before my time I'm 4l60e. I can do a lockup off coolant but i can't definitively understand is it TCC or 2-3Detent /oil/coolant/pulling timing?????

BTW it started and broke the cam in without much fuss, blm +/- 5-8 1500-1700 for 30 mins and all looked good /temp. It had an air pump but the 4.3 proms gone. The only one I can just slap in is the AMUR, too much going on for soldering as of now. Fixing MAYHEW Tundra #%mm whell studs....BTW the $42 code for the AMUR does NOT look correct but all bcc were correct, perhaps it's not $42 xdf. havent messed with new ADS.stuff, Would LOVE to get rid of the ESC on top of the alreadt ESC or Whatever they used to call that stupid module. I'll be keeping EGR, but will disable to figure out. BTW it was Flooding bad when stalled so I'm figuring it's a setting in XDF im not used to. ANY advice on this 400 with might/might not have detent/downshift/TCC/ ?

Chip offsets: http://support.moates.net/programmin...using-offsets/

16197427 information:http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-0D

1227747 to 16197427 conversion information: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...light=16197427 and http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...st-impressions

dave w

Good idea to upgrade but I truly wouldn't see the point in it. If he had a 4l60 and Engine mods maybe , but he's just a guy gettin rid of a V6 leaking from every gasket and slappin and bouncing timing chain. Heck I THOUGHT I was doin him a favor with a fresh proven 350 engine at least. Turns out I handed myself a learning curve BEAT DOWN with old, (i started in 92) halfway vortech 4.3 coupled to Turbo400's which I cant even wrap my head around since I worked for GM from 94-2004 , buddy blew my IROC 305 so in 96' it got a fully roller vortech headed 350 ( carb :( but still had lock-up) and back then in the NM oil feild industry I never saw such an animal. So I'm not even sure what I'm seing in the schematic, depending on which i look at. Guy NEVER mentioned anything about trans issues but lo-n-behold it goes 1-2-seems like 3 then pop....freewheel. I see this detent diagram but it looks like kickdown to me, so could just swapping engines snapped the governor gear like the old ones and my chip tuning is fine, or does it all tie together on the ESC operating charachteristics and throttle delta? Oh, and sorry but my mind goes numb and I loose days in here so if the answers simple I'm all for the EASY button. Although the 28 pin adapters in and I've plenty of bins. 1 wierd thing...the AMUR I broke it in with never threw a code. When he brought back for trans issue I used the ARJT and it ran great,and sometimes I try to blow things up so i drove it with the CEL blinkin at me but I figured it was looking for 700r4 and allthe evap and purge was disconnected, ran great till decel throttle stall then flood on hot start, I'm trying the ADYR next but if anyones got my answer.... I'm very generous with praise and kudos especially when it'll get my churchgoing freinds ride back!

Unplug the kickdown wire on the TH400 and see if the issue goes away. They used the lockup programming to control the kickdown relay. If you are trying to use a 700r4 bin when the programming tries to lock the converter of what it thinks is the 700r4, it will force the TH400 to downshift. Been there, done that. Start with a 350/TH400 bin. They are odd but they exist. I have an 87 G20 that was a 305 TBI and a TH400.

Got it and trying to head that direction. Can only find AHWZ 5.7 W/t400 & I can only assume nightmares of trying to turn what off. I'm abit rusty and yes the 700 was in my datastream of the earlier attempt. Question: I remember injector offsets and setting cylinder volume but couldnt locate. It ran but was lean and I could see spark knock. Also I'm tryin to wrap head around this ABS module controlling that kickdown relay and why not just use TPS voltage... why??

BTW WE WAS DOIN THIS ME N YOU 15 YRS AGO....YOU N THAT VAN :)

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Originally Posted by TeamSlewis3

BTW WE WAS DOIN THIS ME N YOU 15 YRS AGO....YOU N THAT VAN :)

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Haha same guy, different van. Still have my 83 though. I built a 87 G20 for my mom. Bought it for $500 not running from the original owner. Had 104K on the van and its little TBI 305. Thought it had a bad fuel pump because it wouldn't run during key on. Then realize the CEL was not on either. Hooked up my test light, went through the fuses. No power to either side of the ECM fuse but when I wiggled the fuse it would make contact. Fuse box and underhood wiring harness had some corrosion from an older alarm that was poorly installed. I ended up using a piggy back fuse and a spade terminal to get it fired up and drove it home. The 305 ran great but it was leaking oil everywhere. Pulled the 305 and TH400, swapped a LQ4 6.0L with 5.3 heads ported by Lloyd Elliot and a small cam and 4L80E in its place and my mom now drives it on road trips. Had to go through the suspension and brakes but its now a $3500 camper van with a LS 6.0L. It has 2 golf cart batteries on the frame under it, combination 12v and 120 volt wiring, has a RV fuse box with converter in it as well as a 3,000 watt inverter. We finished out the interior with a laminate wood floor and real wood cabinets. It has a bed and a roof mounted turbo fan. It has a mini fridge, food prep counter and most of the features of home except running water or a toilet. She named it Gypsy. Gypsy loves burning up the road on long road trips with its LS power, 4L80E and 3.08 rear gears. Its drive by wire, the gauges all work, the a/c works and it has functioning cruise control on the OEM switch.

My current van project is a 97 Express conversion van. Just built a nice 383 for it. Has a 4L85E and full 8-lug running gear. I tow my travel trailer with it. Fun van. I am about to put it on the road with an 850 cfm Q-Jet modified heavily with a kit from Cliff Ruggles using his book and an 0411 running the ignition system, transmission, cooling fans, a/c, etc. That is a Q-Jet that has not been touched in 10 years that came off my old 305 G20 van and was on about 5 other vehicles after that. I will swap it back to the factory based EFI after I find the $800 to buy the 48 lb/hr injection spider and $200 255 LPH fuel pump it needs to feed that spider at 58 psi it needs to keep from leaning out. I had a marine intake on it but it too needs injectors for the build. I decided to go back to a stock intake because I see the limited future in moded cars and don't want to buy injectors for the marine intake only to have emissions problems a short time later. For the time being its getting the carb with a remote mount TPS and a bypass regulator that I already have that will feed the engine and all the OEM harness will stay intact and get tucked to the side. Cheaper to spend a couple hundred bucks to modify and convert to the Q-Jet for now. Cliff is sending me the parts to really fatten up the fuel curve in that former 305 carb. As it is running stupid lean it starts easily, idles good, has instant throttle response and the plugs are near spotless with nearly no exhaust odor.

https://youtu.be/QiyyzgVKWfo

I actually LOVED my 84'Z28 305 Electric 4BBL QJet 5 speed back inthe day. got 27mpg on the hiway....so many cars ago.Good to talk again you still in TX? BTW the AHWZ 3sd still showing TCC stuff in datastream...

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Originally Posted by TeamSlewis3

I actually LOVED my 84'Z28 305 Electric 4BBL QJet 5 speed back inthe day. got 27mpg on the hiway....so many cars ago.Good to talk again you still in TX? BTW the AHWZ 3sd still showing TCC stuff in datastream...

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Ot will show TCC stuff in the datastream. Same output is used to ground the kickdown relay.

I had a former Olds 307 vin 9 powered 88 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham De Ellegance that I bolted a 403 into with a mild mondello cam back in the day. I used an edelbrock performer intake and older 350 olds heads that I had drilled out the head bolts on. Drove that car almost daily for a year. 307, 2004-R and 2.53 rear gear stock. Idled at 70 mph down the road, about 27 mpg. Put the 403 in it, tweaked the CCC Q-Jet, got rid of the god awful DD rods, swapped the 403 rods into it, modified the air doors to open more than 30° and it ran great. Lost like 2 mpg going from the stock 180 hp 307 to a 403 making roughly 300 hp or so. After replacing the 10 miles of vacuum hoses, getting everything routed correctly, and dialing in the CCC adjustments it ran perfectly and passed smog with flying colors. With the freshened 403 it would actually maintain speed in OD uphill with the a/c on and not slow down 10 mph like it did with the 307, lol. Actually kind of miss that old, ugly lead sled. It was refrigerator white with a god awful blue top. Was my grandfathers car that I inherited when he passed in 2002, spent alot of time behind the wheel of it on country roads with him teaching me to drive. That car would kickdown to 2nd gear at 70 mph and not get above 4,000 rpm on a blast to 100 mph. The olds 307 reved to maybe 4,000 rpm and it would do 60 mph in low gear. When I sold that car it still floated down the road and the factory R12 a/c still blew ice cold. Actually kind of wish I had kept that 403. It was a solid main engine out of a GMC Motorhome that had a 500 Eldorado engine swapped in its place.

Still in Texas here.

I have built a bunch of Qjets over the last 5 or 6 years all with Cliff's kits. He helped spec the cam for the TBI headed 355 in my '86 GMC (i emailed you a pic of the dyno sheet this past summer). Great guy, very helpful but I don't think he shares the same cam mentality as you fast. sorry to get off topic.

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Originally Posted by tayto

I have built a bunch of Qjets over the last 5 or 6 years all with Cliff's kits. He helped spec the cam for the TBI headed 355 in my '86 GMC (i emailed you a pic of the dyno sheet this past summer). Great guy, very helpful but I don't think he shares the same cam mentality as you fast. sorry to get off topic.

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My cam mentality the more I mess with them has come to resemble Vizards. Not to get any more off topic. I think your build would have made more average torque with a single pattern and a tighter LSA but if you are happy with the results and from what I remember about 325 hp and close to 400 ft/lbs from "junk" TBI heads I would be as well. Cliff actually suggested a stock iron q-jet manifold for my 383 and I am not a fan.

I would be curious what you would recommend cam wise. i am running a cast iron Qjet manifold, it seemed to make power so i'll leave it for now.

Roller cam, 218/218 @ 0.050, 0.450 lift, 108 LSA, 102 ICL. Those heads have more equal intake and exhaust flow than most. Having less intake flow they need a single pattern to crutch the intake flow. The heads flow the most around 0.420 and drop off over 0.450, but you want the valve lift to get over 0.420 and hold above 0.420 for a while to get airflow through them. The 108 LSA will make the torque curve fatter and drop off in RPM a little more quickly on the top-end compared to a wider LSA. Advancing the cam will close the intake valve earlier, building more cylinder pressure and more torque. This setup would work well with a "Stage 2" 850cfm Q-Jet prepared as the recipe #2 in Cliff Ruggles book. Would run best with small 1-1/2" or stepped 1-1/2" to 1-5/8" primary headers or best yet 1-5/8" to 2" to 2.5" Tri-Ys. Use a dual 2.5" exhausr with a H-pipe or X-pipe or single 3" exhaust using a merge Y from dual 2.5 off the collectors to single 3". If you like manifolds run the 2-1/4" under the spark plug logs found on a 92 G20 van with a 350 but those will sacrifice a good bit of tq and hp compared to long tube headers or tri-ys.

I like the GM marine or bowtie intake for the 87-95 heads using a Q-Jet. Part number 14096242. GM discontinued it about 10 years ago but still plenty of examples to be found at swap meets and the like. Its basically a cast iron clone of the old late 60s and early 70s high rise Z/28 or LT-1 intake that has been dual drilled for a q-jet or holley 4150 flange and has bump outs in the plenum for the q-jets secondaries cast into it. GM sold them on thousands of marine engines as well as the 285 and 300 hp 350 crate engines of the early to mid 90s. Have also seen a few of GMs performance models like the Iroc and the Monte Carlo SS use this intake in Canada in the 87-88 model year.

I would modify his 2nd recipe or stage 2 for a slightly leaner primary operation given the intake swirl.

Idle Tube 0.036"
Idle Down Channel 0.050"
Lower idle bleed 0.070"
Upper idle bleed (main casting type) 0.067-0.070"
Upper idle bleed (air horn type) 0.050-0.055"
Accelerator pump discharge holes 0.028-0.030"
Main body air bleed 0.070"
Main airhorn style main air bleed 0.070"
Single main air bleed style main air bleed 0.080-0.086"
Main Jet 0.072"
Main metering rods 50M
Fuel inlet seat 0.135"
Float level 0.250"
Secondary POE well restriction 0.035"
Secondary POE restriction 0.055"
Secondary tube restriction 0.036"
F-M secondary hanger
DR or DA secondary rods
Secondary Air flap 1.270" from top of blade to rear of casting.
Air valve windup of 5/8 turn to start.
This secondary setup will give you the full 850 cfm on the single air bleed larger primary venturi 79-84 truck carbs.
Make sure the pulloff has a 1.5-2 second delay.

If you have not gotten into all those restrictions and bleeds you really need to get a copy of Cliff Ruggles Q-Jet book, resize everything and get your carb to run the way it can. Once modified they drive like they are fuel injected.

Sorry for getting off topic. Just helping a fellow GM enthusiast out.