97427 Manual Bin Conversion

[belaw]

Okay, looks like I'm going to start with a 7.4l manual bin. Mark, what bin did you start with?

Also, I'm still in the reading/learning mode, and I haven't seen anything discussing what's involved in changing masks. What's involved in going from $0D to $0E with a '7427 PCM.

[gregs78cam]

Also, I'm still in the reading/learning mode, and I haven't seen anything discussing what's involved in changing masks. What's involved in going from $0D to $0E with a '7427 PCM.

Make sure you have the wiring side of it sorted out (as there are few differences), and just load up a $0E .bin and associated .xdf and .adx.

[belaw]

Make sure you have the wiring side of it sorted out (as there are few differences), and just load up a $0E .bin and associated .xdf and .adx.

So the mask loads automatically with the .bin?

As for the wiring changes, I assume you mea moving some of the pins in the connectors? That's not a problem, as my junkyard harness is for a C3 processor, so a repinning was in the future anyway (once I figure out what terminals to use)

Can you point me to a listing of the wiring differences between $0D and $0E.

[EagleMark]

I'm going to split this so you have a thread.

Newest version of TunerPro will prompt you to open a mask/XDF when you open a bin.

Differnces between the $0D and $0E are all subject to what your builing the harness for. Wiring diagrams are in the GM ECM Info Threads:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ams-Tuner-Info

$0D is usually for 4L60e trans and $0E is for 4L80e Trans, in this case it's a manual so none all that wiring is a moot point.

I started with BMHK.bin and then tried BHDC.bin it shows in my notes, what I eneded up with was a MINE.bin...

If I had to do it again I think I would do $0D 4.3L TBI manual bin. $0D has so many hacks available for future use. None of which would have ever been implemented on the IH truck I did.

[belaw]

Okay, I came across a coupe of 4.3L $0D manual bins from the original thread:

BHRD, $0D, 1994, L1, CPI 4.3L V6(FED, ALT), Manual, 6395
BNBJ, $0D, 1995, L1, CPI 4.3L V6(EXP), Manual, 7427

Since this is all new to me, let me ask what may be a really dumb question: Could I take the spark and fuel tables from a 5.7 bin and move them over to a 4.3 bin and use that as a starting point? Although I've never done this, my thinking is that I need to get the programming close enough to start and run, then I can start data logging for a tune. Is that right, or am I over simplifying things?

Also, the first .bin listed above is Fed and Alt (alternative?) and the second is Export, which I assume is for non-USA vehicles that don't have to meed emission standards- correct? While I guess every bin is different, is there any general benefit to using either a Fed or Export bin as a starting point? Is one usually easier to tune than the other?

Again, please forgive all the basic questions, but this is new territory for me!

[EagleMark]

I'm sure we will all give a hand. But really should know what your using it on?

Your original concern was getting a 5.7L manual bin file, IIRC those engines are all TBI, now your choosing a CPI bin to start, this would be a bad starting point if the engine your using it on is TBI. To many easier choices.

I thought the same thing about Export bins being a better start and found no differences other then they were Open Loop, no O2 sensor for countries with leaded fuel. And never found a way to make them Closed Loop, bailed out and got a Fed bin. Always stay away from California bins and not sure what an Alt bin is?

I kind of stick with what works, matching a bin for a conversion. In this case there is no 5.7L Manual available bin, it's also to easy with these masks and TunerPro to just start with 4.3L Manual bin and make changes needed. A 4.3L TBI engine is a 5.7L TBI engine with 2 cylinders missing. CPI engine is all together differant including heads which plays a major role. Yes you can copy fuel and spark tables from 5.7L to it, but may not have to and have to look at other things before you do that such as Spark Bias to make sure your not adding 10 degrees timing where it was already added...

[belaw]

Opps, I thought BHRD and BNBJ were TBI bins; I'm definately NOT interested in CPI! At least now I know to look for a 4.3 Fed/manual trans. bin... for TBI.

I guess I do need to back up and put my questions in context. I'm building an L31 5.7 to replace a tired carbed 350 in a 1969 Toyota Landcruiser. The build will be fairly stock except for an RV cam and headers and once everything is dialed in I probably won't be make a lot of engine modifications.

I'm planning to ditch my current carb setup because of fuel delivery problems I've experienced at angles and also the set it and forget it aspect of fuel injection; I live at about 12.5 feet above sea level and hate what a trip to the mountains does to my carb.

As you may have figured out by my questions, I'm new to TBI.... REAL new. I've never burned a chip and I'm still not exactly sure what a mask is. I'm in the reading/learning/planning phase and right now I'm spending a lot of time reading posts on this forum and in the TGO TBI forum. I do appreciate the help I've received and the patience shown for my newb questions.

Brian

[EagleMark]

I've been looking through all the bins and even though some are marked as 4.3 TBI Manual they are not TBI but CPI. I can't find a single manual TBI bin for anything. I think I went through this before and that is why I went with $0E...

[belaw]

I've been looking through all the bins and even though some are marked as 4.3 TBI Manual they are not TBI but CPI. I can't find a single manual TBI bin for anything. I think I went through this before and that is why I went with $0E...

What about BJFC?

It's listed as a $0D 4.3 manual bin in this thread: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...highlight=bjfc. gregs73cam even downloaded a BJFC bin from a memcal he pulled out of a 4.3 manual truck and posted it in that thread and I was planning to use that as my starting point.

How do I determine if BJFC is a TBI or CPI bin? I used the BCC Find search, but it doesn't tell me whether its TBI or CPI, and I'm not familiar enough with TunerPro to know where to look for this information.

This brings up another question that has me confused: what's the difference between $0D and $0E, and why would I choose one mask over the other if I had a choice? If I understand what a "mask" is correctly, it simply defines which parameters can be edited, so I assume different masks will allow you to edit different parameters (have I got this right?). Are the editable parameters really that different? Or does it have to do with the quality of the .xdf definitions file that is available? Remember, this is all new ground for me!

Brian

EDIT: Assuming BJFC is a no-go, can you recommend a good $0E manual bin, preferably one that has a known-good stock download available?

[EagleMark]

If Greg said it is I would trust it.

I may be wrong as I was looking at Spark Bias settings and seeing some weird numbers... then max spark was 54.1 and I am used to V8 41.8 but think this is correct for V6. Also BJFC is not SuperCedded and has RPO Engine code LB4 = TBI! So we are in!

[EagleMark]

There's just a lot more hacks/tips/tricks already done for $0D.

Basically $0D was for 4L60E trans.

$0E was for 4l80E trans.

Other ECM were cheaper and had no trans controls and were used for manual.

16197427 had linear EGR which was needed in CA for emmissins even with manual and there are supposed to be bins out there but we never had one.

In the end of that era 16197427 PCM was used for everything, I have one here that came with 7.4L $0E memcal.

[belaw]

If Greg said it is I would trust it.

I may be wrong as I was looking at Spark Bias settings and seeing some weird numbers... then max spark was 54.1 and I am used to V8 41.8 but think this is correct for V6. Also BJFC is not SuperCedded and has RPO Engine code LB4 = TBI! So we are in!

Excellent. I gather that Spark Bias is one of the parameters that will have to be addressed when using a 4.3 bin in a 5.7? Can you give me a run-down on what other parameters I will need to look at ? I've spent a good deal of time reading and haven't seen any discussion on editing a V6 bin for use in a V8.

[gregs78cam]

You got me to thinking, so I double checked it.

BJFC

CPI - NO
VAR. TUNING CNTL - NO
MAN - YES
SHIFT LIGHT - YES
TCC - YES (manual and all NON-E autos)
CLOSED LOOP IDLE - YES
BACKPRESSURE EGR - YES

[EagleMark]

I would leave all the spark bias alone, then go through the bin and make it 5.7L instead of 4.3L. Then a little thought as to how to implement spark table because of the bias differnce. Fueling should be fairly close with changes made to Cubic inch and injector size, tuning VE is first thing we do anyway.

Major issue to change is max spark as V6 has 54.1 way more room between distributor cap terminals then V8 41.8, that was where I got confused and thought it was CPI, but CPI was not checked on those bins either, my bad, wasn't thinking!

[belaw]

Okay, in an effort to give something back, attached are three manual bin files compatable with the 16197427. I can take no credit for this information, particularly BJFC which Greg apparently downloaded from a memcal out of a V6 truck solely for purposes of sharing.

I hope this helps if any other newb like me starts looking for a manual transmission bin.

Brian