350 with 30lb injectors

[EagleMark]

I'm glad for you that the tuner is admitting to drive ability and still working with you. There are more then one way to skin a cat, since he has a shop and a dyno maybe he has a method of doing this completely wrong and backwards? I've been scratching my head to figure out how? Maybe he is doing something we don't know about? Still can't figure out what or why... He is also there and should be able to find a mechanical issue which we can not.

So far we have no proof of anything but a PE Rape tune. Newer OBDII systems can be PE Raped and still cold start and drive good. Most people would not know a good running vehicle as long as it ran and drove OK, then WOW, it's fast at WOT! Woo Hoo!

I understand what you are saying about the fans but right now I believe that is more of a fine tune to the bin. The engine does kick down then back up and I know the computer can add IAC steps to fan anticipate but like I said, that is a very small thing that I am worried about right now and I can always fine tune that or change that later. The little jolt in RPM's on idle don't really bother me all that much, I don't drive this car much to worry about something like that as I only put about 1000 miles or less a year but again can always change and fine tune something like that later.

No you don't! It's not a fine tune issue, right now you don't have a tune to fine anything about. Please forgive me but I'm going to be blunt. What you care about does not matter! We are telling you things that do matter! If you understood, you would do them instead of saying it does not matter to you. It does matter to tune and how it runs.... then all the things would be fixed and the things you care about would be fixed.

If you pick and choose what you want to work on? Then that's all you'll do forever! When you get a few things the way you want? Then all the others fall apart again. You need to start at the beginning with how the bin is calibrated, then fuel tuning if you have a good spark table. Then all these little things fall in place.

Here's how and why! The ECM calculates everything based on what is calibrated into the bin file. If calibrated properly then it can work properly and you can adjust the fueling needs because you changed the engine with cam or..., in SD systems it's the VE table, in MAF systems it's the MAF table. Everything else is an adjustment off of that! If fuel and or calibrated settings are off? Well so is everything else.

First issue is you don't have Injector Vs battery offsets. Second you have varying voltage issues. Those 2 things make it impossible to run right all the time. Fuel pump pressure and delivery change with voltage. Injector flow changes with voltage. All injectors are different and have vastly different settings for offsets so they flow same amount of fuel if voltage is 10 or 15.

Cheating on one thing to make one thing right? Makes all the others wrong!

HTH!

[ony]

when my old 4.3 v6 goes into closed loop it runs like a 4.7 v8 an its worn out, get your tuner to drive it down the road, the gravity force is a lot different than on a dyno, tune it for acual driving.

[ZEDRATED]

So I tried adding fuel to the table on start up and it still runs bad when cold, I then added spark advance like Xtreamvette said it might need and it seemed to run better when cold. I will try again tomorrow.

[ZEDRATED]

Just tried the car again and the spark advanced may have helped a little but not much.

[ZEDRATED]

The car is still bogging out when releasing the clutch on take off when it is cold. I want to try the APYS bin untouched just to see what it does when it is cold.

[xtreamvette69]

So I tried adding fuel to the table on start up and it still runs bad when cold, I then added spark advance like Xtreamvette said it might need and it seemed to run better when cold. I will try again tomorrow.
actually i said to reduce it if engine was running as rich as it looks or reduce fuel .. add if its lean or add fuel(lol like its
at all lean, more like maxed power robbing rich by the log)but then again its hard for me to advise at all as i see no logs of it
doing this and cant fly blind.
but see this is why we dont lie and cheat to the ecm about things like the added timing he added all accross the board in all
conditions that the ecm knows nothing about and now you have to change and adjust something for a particular condition in the
tables, hmmmm.. all conditions, all temps, everything should have been done this way to start with rather then manually bumping
timing all accross the board like he did.
base in bin should have been set to the actual base of the car which was 10* according to you, unless it was changed. then he
should have raised or lowered it in the tables where he needed it for verying conditions...
i know what your going to say, "that he did" and you may be right he may have(i never compared to a stock bin to see), but my point
is what about the extra like 4* the ecm knows nothing about? you could set timing in the tables to 0* and you would still have his
lie of 4* still there... now in some conditions 4* may not seem like much off but in many other conditions it can be alot.

Just tried the car again and the spark advanced may have helped a little but not much.
would have guessed it wouldnt help much as i think its just drowning

The car is still bogging out when releasing the clutch on take off when it is cold. I want to try the APYS bin untouched just to see what it does when it is cold.
then maybe that is what you should do, but i can tell you already what the outcome will be, unmodded APYS is setup for 22# injectors with a much diff voltage offset then you need which is going to run super rich and that combined with the fact that the unmodded APYS is set for 6* base timing when you have 10* will give you the same unknown about 4* extra accross the board of an already pretty aggressive spark advance... that said i'm betting it will start and run but not well.

i think your still thinking your going to be able to find some stock bin thats going to run your engine well in unmodded state which just isnt going to happen, anything is going to need modding..but by all means if you think trying more stock bins will sort something out in your mind then try them, its how some people learn, just be aware of what the car is doing as a reaction to them. again if you want to try stock bins you could try the one i posted a way back, its stock with exception of changed for your injectors, base timing, vats, egr and i think fans iirc.

[ony]

do you have any more chips you can program,you may have a chip that shows it programed an verified but really didn't?

[ZEDRATED]

Yes you are right, I will try that bin, my main thing is I have yet to find a $6E file in which to car runs good when cold. Obviously the stock AUM $32 bin runs rich but when cold it still runs good. At this point I am trying to figure out why none of the $6E bin files that I've tried don't run good when cold.

[ZEDRATED]

I have 2 chips at the moment.

[ZEDRATED]

It will be nice to have an emulator which I don't have to try things during cold runs.

[Six_Shooter]

Yep, emulators are worth every penny, that's why I have three of them and an AutoProm. :D

[ZEDRATED]

Oh and I told him that he should set bast to 10 which I did with the timing light with the advance wire unplugged and for some reason when he was looking at the live data he set the base timing according to when the timing light went to TBD and looked at what the computer says it is giving for total advance. This means that my base timing must be advanced by 4 degrees but I am sure I set it to 10 degrees with the wire unplugged so why would it not line up with the timing light according to what the live data is saying?

[ZEDRATED]

Six_shooter, would you be willing to tune my car if this guy doesn't see it through?

[xtreamvette69]

live data wont show your cars base timing.. only a timing light can and changing base in the bin doesnt change the cars true base it only adds that extra amount to everything without the ecm knowing a thing about it.. now lets think this through as i didnt really analize your tuners bin.. if lets say your engine base timing is 12* and someone puts an 6* base in the bin , your bin will think your cars base is 6* so when a table says it wants 22* adv that is what the ecm will give it but in reality unknowingly the ecm is giving it 28*...when tables call for 30* you will be giving 36*... and when table calls for lets say 36* it will be getting 42*..

now lets reverse and lie the other way and your car has 10* and the bin is calling it 14* well then when a table calls for 22* and the ecm gives it, what the engine is actually seeing is 18*... when wanting 30* its unknowingly giving 26*.... and when wanting 36* the car is actually only seeing 32*.
hope i got all that the right way around.

but now you can see how that really screws with things like areas that need more timing or less for there individual circumstances, like idle vs wot.. if base is cheated all accross the board to lets say lessen adv at wot then whats its effect at idle? mhmm it completly boogers it.. best rule is dont cheat and lie except as a tool sometimes maybe, other then that your way better off adjusting tables and sometimes scalars for each individule circumstance.. there is no quick fix to every condition by lieing all accross the board.

[xtreamvette69]

ok took quick look at your tuners bin and i see he uses 14.06* as base in the bin and your car is actually set at 10* correct? and running in log its saying at idle with eng temp 74*f it is running with 16.52* adv now lets take off the amount the ecm doesnt know about and get the adv it should be seeing and showing shal we...jus a lil over 12* so in my opinion way too little adv for a good idle. but now lets not forget i'm saying its way low in relasionship to the fact that the air fuel ratio is correct or close which i'm not beliving it is so seeing how i think its way rich then it may not take too kindly to alot more adv... now if you drop some fuel and get close to a 14.7 ratio then raise the adv to about 18*-20* of real non cheated adv i'm betting the cold idle would improve dramatically... now the facts, yes it is hard to get the cold idle fuel correct(before o2 gets to operating temp) without a heated o2..keep in mind i said heated o2 not wbo2 just a simple nb heated would do fine but a wb would do as well but you can easily guess it pretty close just by seeing what the o2 you have does as it gets to operating temp (considering if nothing is wrong with your o2). now as i have said all your log points to way rich as it should because of the cheat he put in probably to have plenty of fuel at wot..and that cheat is where he tells the ecm/bin that you are running 26# injectors(using #'s lower then actual=enriches mix, using #'s higher then actual leans the mix) not even gonna mention how the volt offsets are wrong as well and making it richer yet(higher volt offsets then actual=injector open longer=more fuel...lower volt offsets then actual=open less time=less fuel passing)


so in a nutshell you need way less fuel to get the correct ratio at idle first of all then probably more advance durring idle as well, changing just one or the other alone will not fix this... remember everything has to work together in unison to create the correct harmony you seek..

hope this helps you or someone...