I must be in Waaay over my head

[NomakeWan]

tables.jpg

Okay, so one thing at a time.

I do not see a "6E_Extended.xdf" on Scott Hansen's site, only 6E.xdf. Scott knows his stuff so if you did get your XDF from him, I have no reason to believe it is incorrect. The labels in your screenshot do not match the labels in mine, so we're definitely not using the same XDF, but again I'd trust Scott's work.

Okay, so now that I see the table I probably know where your confusion is coming from regarding inputted values. As I mentioned earlier, the actual values you see are calculated from 8-bit or 16-bit data (0-255 or 0-65535). That is the maximum numer of possible values, but what that translates to in the particular table depends on the equation GM used. Do open the "Edit Parameter XDF Info" on a table you're interested in and click Conversion. You'll see that for the Spark Advance table, the equation to convert the binary data to human-readable data is:

0.351567 * X + 0.000000

Where "X" is a binary data value. If you right-click in a table and click "Show Raw Hex" you can see what the raw hex data value of a cell is. In my screenshot, the upper-leftmost cell has a hex value of 3D. This converts to 61 in decimal. 61 * 0.351567 = 21.445587, which rounded to the second place gives you 21.45, which is exactly what's shown in my table. That's how this conversion works. Now, let's say I change that hex value from 3D to 3E, just increasing it by 1. Now it's 62 * 0.351567, which comes out to 21.797154. That means any value between 21.45 and 21.80 will be impossible to enter, because the data literally cannot represent it. It can only represent 21.45 or 21.80 but nothing in between.

Now, here comes the tricky bit. On my XDF, this particular table is set to have a maximum human-readable value of 43.00 degrees of spark advance. But you can see in my screenshot that from the factory, the table has values of up to 49.92 degrees! Now obviously it'll never hit that because the maximum spark advance is set to 39.73, but still, the fact remains that the factory data in the table goes way higher. So, what happens if I try to modify the stock table? Say, drop a value from 49.92 to 48 degrees? When I commit changes and then reopen the table, my 48 degrees will magically become 42.89 degrees! This is because the XDF has set a limit for all user-created inputs to 43, and the closest value less than or equal to 43 is 42.89.

You can raise this specific limit by clicking "Edit Parameter XDF Info" and then changing the number in "Use High Range" on the right in the General tab. This is what sets TunerPro's limit for a particular cell. It sounds like your XDF has that limit set to 46 instead of 43.

If your tuner told you nothing about stacking, I wonder if the tunes he was sending you were pre-stacked? I know I'd do the same thing if I knew my end-user was using a chip larger than the BIN. It's easy to tell the difference; a factory BIN is 16KB, while a pre-stacked BIN (like the second one I posted) would be 64KB.

As for the specific issue with smog and valvetrain, yes, if the engine was not fully mechanically sound when doing the tune that will 100% screw up the tune. Fixing vales that weren't opening all the way means you're getting a lot more air into the combustion chamber than you were before, but if your tune was expecting less volumetric efficiency (less airflow into the chamber), then it'll be delivering less fuel than the air you're actually getting in. Classic lean condition, so you're probably spot on the money.

What you can do as an easy test is to just change fuel across the board, and lower spark advance a little across the board. Leave the big tables alone. Just change the Maximum Spark Advance to something lower (factory on the Corvette is 41.84, so try that), and then change "Single Fire FI Size @ 40 psig" and "Double Fire FI Size @ 40 psig" both to a slightly smaller number. This will trick the computer into thinking you have smaller fuel injectors than you actually do, which will have the effect of increasing fuel flow uniformly across the entire fueling table.

Now, here's the bombshell. While getting you information for this post I actually found that the problem may in fact be the ARAR BIN itself. I've never used it; I just had it downloaded from this forum, same as you did. But comparing it against other $6E BINs it has a bunch of data that is just plain wrong. I don't know why it's so wrong, but it's incredibly wrong (for example, it reads as having a rev limit of only 1182 RPM, and fuel injectors that are only 6 lb/hr instead of 22!!!).

I've attached an ARAP file to this post. It's got the same modifications as before (no VATS, cooling fan set to Normally Open), and is stacked for your chip. Give it a whirl.

[MadMikeZ28]

bin stack wrong.jpg

I first downloaded (and printed out screen shots of installing all and data logging) the XDF from Scott's web site. Then the person that was doing my tune sent me the extended version. And the person doing my tune knows Scott and lives close to him.

When you mentioned "bin stacking", later on while I was doing something else I had remembered reading something about that in the TP help. So I looked into it and it looked as if I had the wrong settings shown in the image. So I changed it to bin size 16, chip 64 and block 32. I did not see a "save" button but I closed that window and reopened and the changes were the same.

My edit XDF also shows the same 0.351567 * X + 0.000000. Which I suppose makes sense as that is the XDF supplied to me by the tuner. I think he just made a small change to Scott's XDF.

In Gerneral of my XDF parameter it shows "use high range", a box checked and a range of "43.0000". So that is why any of the cells that had a value above that, like were some were "47.xx" automatically changed to "42.89".

I will try that lowering maximum Advance (that is the scaler? mine is 42 now) and the single and double fire and see what happens. As long as the changes take. But I did fix the bin stacking as far as I know.

I also saw somethings in the ARAR bin from this forum. Like the spark table was WAAAY different than any other bin I looked into. I first chose the ARAR because the name showed a gear ratio closer to my 2.77. But after seeing those tables o much different, I gave up on that ARAR.

I have to go to another computer so I can print this stuff. Good reading.

The car is warm so I can't find out if that ARAR wont turn fans on with the key right now. But I am going to try that spark advance and single/ double fire right now.

Thanks!

[NomakeWan]

No problem! I apologize that it took several posts before I actually went and had a look at the ARAR BIN more deeply; that should've been the first thing I did, but since it came from here I just trusted that it would be okay. D'oh!

The ARAP BIN checked out so it should be okay, and your car should start with it. Hopefully the fans work right too!

For BIN stacking a 16KB bin into a 64KB chip, I use Bin Size 16KB, Block Size 64KB, Chip Size 64KB. Then I just feed it the one BIN file I want to stack as Pos 0. Other way you could do it is Bin Size 16KB, Block Size 16KB, Chip Size 64KB, then place the BIN you want to stack into all four positions.

[MadMikeZ28]

I could have brought up that the ARAR bin from the forum did not look right in other areas. But I assumed it was your bin from somewhere else and my mind is taking in so much. It is like filling a shot glass with a pitcher of beer.

I did try changing the Max spark from 42 to 38 and the injector size from 22.?? to 19.?? and it still shows lean on the AFR gauge. But at least I am learning something! I just hope it sticks.

I also changed the bin stacker to 16, 64 and 64 and noticed it was already pos 0.

When looking in Parameter Category, under "Fuel" it shows Start up enrichment and multiple MAF tables.
Is that has a richer or leaner AFR is achieved? By adjusting MAF tables?

[NomakeWan]

The problem with adjusting the MAF tables is that you need actual data to do that. That's why I didn't suggest adjusting any tables to get your tune right. I'm not going to be able to help you if your tune is just plain wrong; someone will have to actually help you re-tune the car.

But my assumption here is that your existing tune is close enough that if your issue is just a lean condition, you can increase fuel across the board and leave the individual tune tables alone. That's why I suggested adjusting the two Injector Size values (make sure they both match each other!!!) instead. By adjusting the injector size value to be smaller than your real injector size, it fools the computer into spraying more fuel, but keeping all the same adjustments for RPM, coolant temp, etc etc etc.

[MadMikeZ28]

Actual MAF data as in what is really entering the motor and not what the MAF says in a data log?

The tune I tried adjusting the injector size and max advance limit was the stock APYN bin that I had also copy and pasted the ARAP timing table to earlier. But with the ARAP timing table (where some values did not change that you explained why earlier) and the Max Spark and Injector sizes changed to the values in my previous post, there was no change in the AFR.

I did not drive it, I let it run for about 5 minutes and put it in drive when I checked for an AFR change.

The tune that was made up for me, while the valve train was failing, the tuner labeled it ARAP. I assume he just labeled it that for the ARAP timing tables he started with. He would inform me that he was adjusting the timing and MAF tables after I would send him a data log. If this is not the actual data, what is a person doing while they tune? Best guess?

I did not mention that I also changed the cam. I only mentioned the heads and how the O2 side was failing so you would get an idea as to why I suspected the tune went from a good AFR to a lean AFR.

What do others actually do when they tune for something like a head and cam swap?

The last bin you attached, ARAP, fans still on and no start.

I would attach the bin he made that I use but I don't see where to attach here.... may have found how to attach. May have attached twice.

[steveo]

What do others actually do when they tune for something like a head and cam swap?

same we do when we tune for any major engine modification

first i usually try to make it idle well so it doesn't just coke up or rinse the rings clean while we're playing with it. experimentation with idle speed and timing is required for that

then we usually log for afr errors outside of power enrichment (cruise areas, light load) and tune to correct the errors and hit the fueling targets (whether that be a maf or ve table or injector constant, all those modify fueling output)

while we're driving we also look at transitional fueling if it seems a bit laggy or stumbly during throttle changes (acceleration enrichment) or if it pops and farts if you cut the throttle abruptly (decel enleanment or decel fuel cutoff)

now that we can drive it somewhere to really lay the throttle down we log for afr errors in power enrichment (wideband) and attempt to achieve a balance between safety and peak power during power enrichment

at the same time we modify the timing tables to suit the new combustion chamber and cam. usually add or subtract timing in cruise range until it's smooth and burning all the fuel you're feeding it, and for wide open throttle or high load areas we usually find the point that knock occurs and back it off a bit from there. timing takes a lot of practice and sometimes just experience, some engines like tons of timing and some don't, also the burn rate of your fuel is a huge factor so you're tuning for a particular fuel octane here

then we might repeat the process one more time because timing and AFR affect each other a bit, so once your timing is dialed your AFR might not be quite right

[NomakeWan]

The last bin you attached, ARAP, fans still on and no start.

That is incredibly peculiar. If it were my car, the next thing I'd do is check error codes. If it's throwing an ECM PROM Fault error code then I know something's super wrong with the BIN and/or chip and can stop diagnostics there.

If it's not throwing that code, next thing I'd do is isolate all devices connected to the D11 pin to make sure nothing external is commanding the fans to turn on. If that didn't resolve the fan issue, I'd then check the ALDL datastream to see if the ECM is indeed commanding the fan or not (if it is not commanding the fan and the fan is coming on anyway, then either the XDF has the setting inverted, or there's a short-circuit across the fan relay).