I must be in Waaay over my head

[MadMikeZ28]

I have been looking through here and not finding the Tuner Pro RT for Dummies.

I have data logged and burned to modified Memcals for my 1989 IROC TPI so I get that much. Someone else would get my emailed bin and modify it then email the new version to me. But I seem to be left on my own now.

I tried to change some flags on a ARAR Corvette bin. I changed them to match the stock Camaro APYN. The car would not start and the engine fans came on with the key.

So I tried to modify my current tune.
I Manually entered and copy and pasted to "Time domain correction to spark" I hit "commit changes", "Save Bin", or both. It would make changes and save but where I would enter three digit values in the column of various numbers, it would end up changing all the values to 46.

Why do the values change to values not entered? Save them wrong?

Why do I see no change in operations when setting flags? "Cooling Fan N/O Req Input" with the "set" box checked I assumed would make the fans not come on with the key like the OEM camaro bin.

And where can I read descriptions on tables like "Rocky vs Apollo", "Mothera vs Godzilla vs Kong" (if I remembered those table names correctly) to see what they do?

[NomakeWan]

Everything depends on the quality of the XDF file you are using to interpret the BIN in question. If the XDF is barebones (or worse, wrong) then you are pretty much on your own as far as knowing what does what and which setting goes where. In these cases I usually just compare two BINs from the same ECM with known features to confirm that a flag does what I think it does (for example, comparing an automatic and manual transmission to see which flags get set, or comparing a vehicle with a CCM to one without to see if there's a flag there). Sometimes "unset" is actually "on" with these, unfortunately.

As for why values change, that's usually either because you entered a value that goes beyond the limit of the cell (for example if the limit is 127 and you typed 255), or because you have TunerPro set to Hex display mode instead of Decimal and thus are entering values way higher than intended.

My concern is with that ARAR edit not working. A pre-90 Corvette won't have a CCM to get fussy over, so it should be relatively safe to edit. Which flags specifically did you alter? Also, were you using an XDF meant for $6E to make those changes?

[MadMikeZ28]

I am using the $6E "extended" downloaded from Scott Hansen's site. The "extended" I believe if something done by the person that was working on my tune previously. He used to be a programmer in a past life. What I have in my Tuner Pro is everything that he has been tuning with.
I have been viewing stock tunes, hypertech's tune and comparing with how those flags are set and I set the Vette flags (the ARAR bin I downloaded from this site) the same way. Yet for some reason they don't seem to take.
For instance, I set the "Cooling Fan N/O Req Input" in the Vette bin to match that flag with the Camaro bin. Still, the fan comes on with the key.

The values that I changed are not outside of any limit. I took the values from one bin and used them in another. I would hit the "commit to changes" floppy disc icon in the values table. The "save bin" floppy disc near the load bin file folder and a combination of both. When I open the table again, all values were "46". NOT the value I entered.

The 1989 Camaro APYN and 1989 Corvette ARAR should both use the same XDF.

[NomakeWan]

Doing some research into your fan problem, looks like these cars have a rather convoluted fan trigger setup that has multiple inputs and outputs: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ontrol-6e.html

Of most interest is that if there is a short to ground somewhere on pin D11 (either because the thermoswitch in the passenger head is toast, the AC pressure switch is toast, or there is a wiring fault) this will trigger the fan to come on regardless of PROM setting.

That being said, I'm still not convinced that that is the issue since you car also won't start when ostensibly the only change you made was to a single flag controlling whether the fan relay is NC or NO. Altering a single flag and leaving everything else the same should not result in a no-start condition. This makes me seriously wonder about the validity of the BIN and/or chip and/or XDF.

For example, what actual chip are you using? If the chip requires BIN Stacking (because the BIN is smaller than the chip it's being burned to), have you stacked the BIN before burning? If the entry vector is wrong then you'll trigger the ECM error stuff.

As to the values not taking, that one I can't explain. It's one of those "works on my machine" things where I cannot replicate the behavior you're describing, so other than the guesses I've already provided, I'm out of ideas for you. I used 6E_expanded.xdf to edit the ARAR BIN, changed all the values in Time Domain Corr to Spark Vs. RPM to 244, hit Commit Changes, and then reopened the table. My changes were all 244 as expected. I saved the BIN to a new file, closed the BIN in TunerPro, then reopened it. My changes were still there as 244.

I've uploaded the ARAR BIN with just the one flag for the fan changed to this post. Does it work for you?

[MadMikeZ28]

There is nothing wrong with the fan wiring. I have been driving the car on different tunes for 3-4 years now.

I also have several modified Memcals so I could drive on one and burn to another. They contain SST 27SF512 chips.

I did semi figure out a couple things,

I copied the timing tables from an ARAP bin I downloaded from here. I pasted it to my stock AYPN. When I pasted it, some values turned red and were lower than what was copied.
I assume there is something else in the tune that would need to be changed to allow for the higher values?
I thought Scaler because I saw things like max advance. But that in both tunes were set the same.

I also noticed that when I went into the ARAR timing tables that the numbers were waaay different (much lower across the board) than the ARAP, APYN and a Hypertech tune for an 89 Camaro.
So as for the no start with ARAR, I think the ARAR tune found on this site has been modified. But I dont know where else to look for why the fan switch change does not allow the fans to NOT come on with the key on engine off.

I will try your ARAR bin.

Thanks

[NomakeWan]

The 27SF512 is a 64 KB chip. The BIN for your ECM is 16KB. So you should be BIN Stacking.

I've attached a modified version of the above BIN designed for a 64KB chip to this post.

If when pasting values it seems like they don't all change correctly, that sounds like the tables don't actually align between wherever you're copying them and where you're pasting them. Personally I do not like pasting tables in TunerPro for exactly this reason and would rather just type them out manually.

The 6E_expanded.xdf actually doesn't have limits set per se; the only limits it has are on the actual size of the data address. For example, if the data address is an 8-byte address, then you can only have data values of 0 to 255. What those data values translate to in "human readable" things like milliseconds or degrees or whatever depends on an equation included in the XDF (right-click on a parameter, click "Edit Parameter XDF Info," then at the bottom switch to the Conversion tab to see what equation is being used to convert raw ECM data to human-readable values). You should under no circumstances modify this equation unless you know for a fact that it is wrong. And even then you should double-check and triple-check to be absolutely certain. My recommendation is to leave the XDF well enough alone. If you're using the same one I am, it is not the culprit.

If by "turned red" you don't mean the text (which indicates that a value has been altered) but rather the background color of the cell, that color is useless and can be ignored. It's a reference color relative to other values in the table. It is perfectly normal to have a cell be "red" if it is intentionally a larger value than most everything else in the table (this happens a lot in transmission tables, for example).