Chips in a OBDII PCM?

[RobertISaar]

for that kind of money, the newer Willem units (4 series) will program nearly anything and for significantly less $$$... i believe the Intel 28Fx00 units from the 0411 included.

i'm sure there is plenty of room inside to just mount a ZIF socket on the surface of the board... based on what i've seen of the internals anyways. if the roadrunner will fit in the case, then a ZIF socket should be no problem. building a little access door so you don't have to open it completely would be a nice addition as well.

i can see the EPA cracking down on the diesel DPF stuff since it's all relatively new, but general gasoline tuning? wouldn't count on it.... if they had put their foot down when the subject was new, it would be effective, but not now... it's too widespread for them to have any hope of stopping it. CARB is ridiculous and they still aren't able to detect/deal with a lot of it.

[EagleMark]

Looks like the Roadrunner has a header and ribbon cable and board, I know Moates sells the header and would probably sell the ribbon cable? So would that put the chip outside?

rr_guts_kit.jpg

Doesn't sound like a lot of wires needed, diagrams are all there...What kind of bin file to run it on another rig? Like OBDI...

[EagleMark]

Looks like loads of room if Moates can stuff a seperate board in there...

The guts of the LS1 controller look fairly typical for a modern electronic part. The flash memory chip is labeled "A" and the processor is labeled "B" in the shown photo.
0702ct_09_z+factory_pcms+.jpg

[RobertISaar]

huh..... i actually expected more ICs.... then again, the 68332 on it's own can do a lot more than the 6811 on it's own. there are a LOT of drivers.

[JeepsAndGuns]

So what would be the benefit of doing this? I know nothing about OBD2.
I'm guessing this simply removes the need for flashing through the obd port? What has caused the desire to do this?

[EagleMark]

You got it, get around cost or avalaibility of re-flash through OBDII port.

[1project2many]

The Moates Roadrunner DIY kit is expensive but not out of control.

Black box Vortec instructions to modify for flashing without using OBDII were on gmecm years ago. Steve Ravet did some initial work with this.
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/ecm_info/32bit/dumpflash/

I've been trying to tell people for years that OBDII is a step backward for tuning if you're only using the OBDII connection for programming. You lose all ability for real time emulating and changing the cal takes more time than burning and changing an eprom. The BDM flash is likely to be faster but Steve's instructions, like many from tech guys, make a lot of assumptions about knowledge and skill level of the user.

The ability to pull the chips out and make changes, however, means you will always have a way to modify your calibrations even if software to change through OBDII port is stopped. It's definitely worthwhile to work out a solution. Here's the first part of a hardware solution, a header which allows you to move the flash chip off the board:
http://www.moates.net/roadrunner-diy...on-header.html

Then you might be able to use a ribbon cable to move the connection point away from the board. Looks like at least one person on thirdgen is doing something similar. Luckily a 44 pin ribbon cable is fairly standard in the PC world so short pre-made cables are easy to locate:
http://www.cablesonline.com/44pinlapinri.html


Some good reading:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....-install-today
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....t-installation
From here, there is a nice link to a page with pictures (because we all love pictures)
http://www.florida4x4.com/tech/rr-guts/

Of course, we're not looking to install the Roadrunner, only to install something such as a ZIF socket or ribbon cable. One approach might be to modify a GM memcal and install a ZIF or the proper flash chip on one end while leaving the other end unpopulated. Pin spacing would determine how difficult this is.

There are several tools available which appear to allow programming the PSOP44 44 pin flash device using a standard eprom programmer. They appear to be from China but maybe the cost is worth it:
http://www.dhgate.com/chip-programme...112a84964.html
http://www.oobdii.com/other-obd2-veh...-socket-psop44
Here's one for a Willems programmer:
http://tekdevice.com/chapter2/index....&product_id=55
Here's one that you complete:http://www.sivava.com/B09_Adapter.html

Of course, once you get this done it all begs the question of why can't you use your existing emulator? I'm sure some digging around might find those answers or enough clues to figure it out. Problems with timing, communications speed, and device storage capacity are all possibilities that come to mind. But one step at a time, of course.

HTH

[JeepsAndGuns]

You got it, get around cost or avalaibility of re-flash through OBDII port.

Still not knowing anything about OBD2 or flash chips. What makes it so bad to flash through the OBD port, that we are looking at removing the chip to flash it? Seems like your removing the need for buying a cable and software to flash the pcm, and instead making it to where you now have to buy a chip burner, cable and software.
I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, but I guess I am just not understanding whats going on.