transmission swap question

[lscotty]

First off I'm new here and will admit I'm totally retarded when it comes to all this programming stuff so forgive me if this is a dumb question or one with an obvious answer, I searched all over and havent found the answer yet. And this seems like the place that might finally be able to answer it.

So the short version is I have a 454 that had a 4l80e behind it both out of a 91 chevy 1 ton dually. If I swapped out the 4l80e for a 700r4 or a th400 what would happen? Would it start running wrong in anyway and need something reprogrammed to fix it? Or would there be no issues?

Now the longer version in case you need some other info.

I have a 77 chevy k20 that I just pulled the 350 out of and replaced it with a tbi 454 out of a 91 chevy 1 ton. I had the whole 91 chevy to work with and pulled the motor and tranny, complete wiring harness both motor side and from under the dash, all fuel lines and both gas tanks, and the radiator, plus some other random thing just in case. I've got the motor in and ready to go now the transmission is my issue. The donor truck was a 4x2 with a 4l80e. I know you can change the 2wd 4l80e to 4wd and put a transfercase on but I'd rather not deal with the hassle or the extra cash to do so. I have on hand a th350, th400 and a 700r4 all with transfer cases and in good shape ready to go. what if anything needs changed to make one of them work? I know they all bolt up but dont know what issues it is going to cause switching from the electronic 4l80e to a non electronic transmission or what needs done to make it work. The truck will be mostly offroad only when this is all done if that makes a diffrence.

Any advice or input is appreciated. Remember I'm a noob and know basically nothing about programing anything. I'm pretty sure I know what the PCM looks like but that would be about it. Im good with older engine stuff but all the electronic stuff not at all. Im willing to put it the work and time to learn just point me in the right direction.

[Six_Shooter]

Yes, the ECM will need to have a properly tuned bin file loaded to the EPROM (or adapter with new EEPROM), to disable trans control and codes so that the CEL will not be activated for trans signal loss/missing and so that the quasi LHM is not triggered.

I STRONGLY suggest using the 4L80E, it is by far better trans than a 700R4, and will take far more abuse than the 700R4. The TH400 is nearly as strong but lacks the overdrive.

[lscotty]

Thank you. I actually understood that it took a minute tho. That is exactly the answer I was looking for. Not real worried about overdrive since the truck will be offroad oriented so th400 or 4l80e then. The ECM part I get, EPROM im not sure about but I'll read more. You said or an adapter with new EPROM is that something I could possibly order and plug right in to have it work? I'll start reading up more about all this and see if I can learn how to do it. Im sure it would come in handy at some point. If I cant figure it out I guess I'll find someone that is able to do for me. Thank you again

[lscotty]

Looked at the ECM as I was leaving for work so I could look up info on it and it's a 7060. Did a google search or 2, not many since I am supposed to be working, but several forum posts I read said there wasnt a lot of people who have programmed this particular ECM. Would I be better off with a diffrent ECM even though all I want is the transmission stuff removed? Would using the ECM from a 90 chevy truck with the same motor work if all the pins on the plug were matched up? That would remove my transmission issue since 91 was the first year for the 4l80e. Or an ECM from a manual transmission truck? Wouldnt that be the same as my current ECM minus the transmission controls for the 4l80e or would that cause other issues also?

Sorry for all the noob questions. Just some thoughts I had from tonights quick search and exploring possible options.. Monday I'll have more time to research stuff myself.

[EagleMark]

2 different units, one for the 4L80E is a PCM and the one for 700R4 is a ECM.

Nothing wrong with either and the 7060 programs just fine.

What transmission are you using?

[lscotty]

2 different units, one for the 4L80E is a PCM and the one for 700R4 is a ECM.

Nothing wrong with either and the 7060 programs just fine.

What transmission are you using?

Right now there isnt a transmission in it untill I figure out the best/easiest/cheapest route to go. I have a th350, th400, and 700r4 all with transfer cases ready to go. Also have the 4x2 4l80e but to use the 4l80e is gonna be around $800 just for me to get a transfercase mounted on it. If I can save some money and use the th400 fairly easily thats prob the route I'd prefer. It's looking like the easiest for me would be to find someone to program me a new EPROM removing the unnecessary transmission stuff and order an adapter to install it. Or order what I need to do all that myself and learn how to do it. Every one here obviously knows a lot more then me about this stuff so I'm open to recommendations and advice.

[Six_Shooter]

The manual ECM for those years was the '7747 or similar variant ('299 was also used for a few years). The plugs are different between the 16147060, 1227747, '299 and 16197427 (all TBI ECM/PCMs).

If you swap to a different ECM/PCM you can simply repin the connectors using the existing harness.

The alternative is as you suggest create a new bin file that is set-up for manual using the existing PCM. There's a few advantages to this, you will have the faster comms (datalogging) of the newer PCMs. The '7747 and '299 have a slower rate of 160 baud, where as the newer PCMs have 8192 baud rates. You will also have the ability in the future to swap the 4L80E in easily.

The '7060 is a less common PCM, seems to have only been used in the 454 (SS) trucks. A more common PCM is the '7427 (16198063 is the same), and has patches available to add more functionality, like e-fan control. This would require swapping the connectors as well, since the '7060 and '7427 use different connectors.

If it was my choice, I'd use a '7427, due to being more common and the available patches, regardless of trans. I have used this PCM in my Grandfather's '71 pick-up that has a crossfire intake, and 4L60E installed.

[lscotty]

Thanks six shooter. Curious how many other forums are you on? Ive seen the name on at least 2 others while searching about this the last few days.

I'll look at the junk yard for a 7427 after a quick search looks like 94-95 chevy truck is what they are most common in is there something else common to find them in. just want to check am I correct assuming that since I'd be reprogramming it that it doesnt really matter what vehicle and motor the donor vehicle had in it as long as it's a 7427?
Seeing as this would be my first attempt at all this would I be better off find someone to do the chip for me or is it fairly simple to understand once you dig into it?

What software would you recommend for someone like me whos just learning I've seen a few diffrent programs mentioned and found a thread or 2 that lists stuff to get from moates to do the chips. Im off the next few days so will read some more and figure out what i think I'll need and come double check before ordering anything just to be sure. Thanks a ton for the help so far.

[gregs78cam]

If you can't find one locally, I have a couple I should list in the classified section. I also have a V8 memcal or two. But definately check your local pull-a-part yards first. Also you will probably want to stick with a V8 instead of a V6 so Limp Home Mode functions correctly.

[Six_Shooter]

Those are the only years that I know of for sure for that ECM service number, though there were a LOT of trucks equipped with them, so it really shouldn't be hard finding one. I know there are usually at least a dozen trucks at the local pick and pull with that ECM in them.

Try to find one that has a V8, most settings will be close as a start to get you going. I don't recall if this ECM was used on any V6 TBI applications or not, I don't think it was. Most I see are 305. A few are 350. I have not personally seen a 454 equipped truck with a '7427, but I haven't looked for one either. The only issue I can fore see is the knock filter. Some research will need to be done to see what knock filter you need exactly. Potentially the MEMCAL from the '7060 you have could be used for that, or swap knock filters between MEMCALs.

The '7060 is not a bad ECM to tune, it's just not as used. A friend of mine has two vehicles with '7060s in them, both conversions, and both are running big block Olds engines with 4L80Es behind them. His is a '71 Olds Cutlass, and his GF's car is an '89 Impala. So if you feel more comfortable starting with the PCM you have, by all means, then later you can swap to a '7427, once you get more in tune with what needs to be done. (pun sorta intended. ;))

I've used Tuner Pro RT for years. (www.tunerpro.net), it works well and is very customizable, and many people here use it, so there is plenty of support.

Also many of us use Moates products (www.moates.net) because they work, and you can't find these types of products anywhere, or at least not as cheaper, for many items, there are a few exceptions.

When you get a little more serious, I recommend 14point7.com products for WBO2 sensor. I have had an SLC_DIY1 for years, that I used to tune other people's cars, now it's installed in my car, and I just received an SLC_PP2 last week to go in my tuning bag, though I might install the PP2 in my car, and use the DIY1 again for other people's cars. ;)

You can download Tuner Pro now, and the appropriate files and get a feel for what you need to do to get things set up initially. I know there is an $0D XDF ($0D is a code mask that the '7427 can use), that details how to set up for manual or non-electronic trans in the comments section of some of the parameters.

You can also ask here if you get stick.

Yes, I am on many forums, many I don't frequent anymore. Some that are related to tuning would be thirdgen.org, code59.org, fullsizechevy.com, delcohack... er... pcmhacking.com, 60degreev6.com, v6z24.com, and a couple others. I am on more than that but less on the topic of tuning.

[gregs78cam]

The '7427 was used in V6's, both TBI and CPI. A 16196395 and a 16168625 should both be able to run the $0D mask also.

[Six_Shooter]

The '7427 was used in V6's, both TBI and CPI. A 16196395 and a 16168625 should both be able to run the $0D mask also.

Thank you. I was sure that it was used in CPI, I just didn't recall any TBI V6 applications of it. That's probably because a V6 full size truck around here is pretty rare. ;)

[lscotty]

Awesome thank you all so much! I spent a good week searching google and posted on a couple other forums for theisinformation with no luck. I just happened to see a link to this forum on a post and figured Id give it on last try. Glad I did. I'll pull out my laptop and download the stuff to night and look at it and I'll probably end up going to a junk yard or two tuesday and see what I can find. I'm sure I'll have more questions when I get into it. But I'm finally off to a good start on getting it all done.

[lscotty]

Downloaded tunerpro and neen playing around a little. Few questions to make sure I'm understanding stuff correctly. Bin file is what goes on the chip for the PCM to read and xdf file is what the tunerpro uses to read and edit the bin file. $OD is a type of xdf file. Is there a way to tell if the 2 dont match up correctly like are from 2 diffrent vehicles? As I'm sure that could end up bad.

Tunerpro looks pretty straight forward and I think I'm gonna be able to work my way through pretty easy it once I understand the files properly and how to pick the correct ones.

[lscotty]

Well I got the transmission in and finished routing all the wiring from the motor swap. Started right up and everything was working so went for a quick drive around the block. Doesn't seem to be in limp mode or anything. Motor revs up when driving and isnt limited, motor is putting out what seems to be full power and transmission shifts fine. check engine light is on but expected that. Haven't had a chance to hook up a scan tool to see what codes are thrown but assuming the 4l80e being gone will have thrown at least a few. Is the limp mode tied direct to the 4l80e transmission and since it's not there the limp mode involving the transmission doesn't function other then causing the check engine light to be on?