Four cylinder non turbos use a long axle without a jack shaft. AX5518 picture is incorrect or listing is wrong. RH side axle for manual trans uses jack shaft. I'm probably not remembering auto trans correctly though. I'll see what part numbers I used when I get home as I saved the boxes with the cores.
Oh great! thanks!
its coming together. First I misplaced my ostrich over the years, bought a new one of those... Found out I misplaced my innovate lc-1 serial cable and terminator plug, so I ordered new ones of those, and the serial to usb converter, so ill be able to configure the wideband to output to the ecm so I can finally get serious on tuning this thing.
Need to build a solid torque rod for this thing, or at minimum fill the stock dogbone with windshield adhesive, there is so much slack in this drivetrain it bucks around like a horse with light to no throttle and after boost hits and let off its pretty violent like somethings going to break.
All my mounts are new, idk if he TRUE turbo cars got any additional mounts but that tiny rubber dogbone sure isn't keeping things still under the hood.
The turbo cars didn't get extra mounts. Manual vs auto trans mounts were different part nos. and 4 cyl vs v6 were different. Filling the dog bone may not be the answer because all the mounts have to work together. Some movement is normal but the calibration settings can play a huge part in how the engine responds to throttle changes.
yeah I see what you're saying... Maybe its the brand of mounts, but this thing feels LOOSE. I cant imagine these things bucking around at a low speed at idle like that when they were brand new. Acts like a semi truck does, or a man trans car with a large cam.
Hey guys, I went out to verify my timing this morning, it was actually at 4 degrees. I put it to 6 (I have a factory service manual and it says to use under hood spec :( ) that being said, what should my tuning settings be just to make sure I understood what was said earlier.
P.s, I tried the coil wire and it was the exact same as the #1 wire...it jumps around but it is steady on the actual timing mark long enough to set it fairly easy.
Thanks for the help guys.
Since I have some of you in here ill try asking,
The tuning has gone great! the car seems to like richers a/f ratios, trying to get it no leaner than mid 13's during idle and cruise, getting close to running closed loop, Ill play around with milage when I get to that point, especially at idle tho, a low 12 air fuel makes the idle silky smooth, unlike a 14-7.. even the stock non turbo motor was rough.
anyways, I battled a faulty boost solenoid and got that ironed out, now im up to 15 psi and ramps up lean real fast when it gets to that last several psi.
Fuel pump is original im sure, im going to throw in a turbo trans am pump which is 60 gph, (my 94 is 55 and the 90 turbo sunbird is 45)
That should cover fuel volume.
Other issue I may have is im running a non turbo 94 model fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator... Non boost reference.. Any advice on a fuel pressure reg?
I may be able to get away with a fresh pump possibly, but something tells me I may run into not having enough injector unless I get a proper boost fuel pressure. my auto tune logs are showing the inj duty cycle clear up past 100 around 150's.
The stock engine will idle smoothly at 14.7 and slightly leaner. Timing and O2 trim values are the key. I'll happily record my car idling. You'll never believe it's a stock Sunbird engine.
If you're using stock turbo injectors and pump and trying to achieve 15 psi you'd better have all the ducks lined up perfectly. Pre-ethanol I could hit nearly 18 psi safely. Post-ethanol I'm at 16 due to oxygen content of the fuel. I use 89 octane for all tuning. Stock 94 pump is not likely to support much boost but rail shouldn't be a problem. I'm using 94 manifold but turbo bird rail. I would have used 94 rail but inlet/outlet are reversed and I didn't want to swap it around. Regulator will work but you must connect vacuum hose to boost!!! For stock turbo injectors you'll never get enough fuel if the fuel pressure doesn't increase with boost.
Stock timing map provides too much advance for 15 psi even with enough fuel. Remember that GM originally used fuel for chamber cooling, dumping nearly 2X the necessary amount due to lack of intercooler. To lean mixture and raise boost, intercooling is a must. Watch transition as you move into boost... stock fuel map may go lean for a bit and cause a chain reaction leading to knock even with excess fuel delivered at time of knock. When solving knock issues, always remember to view log for a second or two prior to knock occurring to look for cause. If you have enough fuel and timing isn't too far advanced, suspect heat caused by previous event was initiator. Lean spot, 1 deg too much timing, 1 deg rise in intake temp can all be cause of problem. Remember that it takes 4-6 degrees of knock retard to stop knock once it starts but only 2 degrees less timing to prevent it. Truly a case where less is more.
If IPW is showing 150 then ecm is telling you you're 70% short required fuel.
Your head gasket is a fuse. It will "blow" before more serious damage occurs. That's a good thing. But you have to pay attention and spend plenty of time reviewing datalogs to bring up the boost without killing the gasket. Trust me.
Thanks for the wise words..
Today I dropped the tank down, put back in a turbo trans am fuel pump. Took it out for a spin, First time I got on it in second gear my intercooler pipe blew off and the exhaust made a backfire equivilant to a gun shot LOL.
Tightened the clamp at that particular joint down better and took it for another test. Car goes through the gears without leaning out now. No laptop, just a/f gauge. Altho its working I still don't know if its keeping up, I will set the fuel table to dump WAY more fuel than is needed for a test drive and see how much room for play I have. I suspect I still need to get a boost reference FPR. Stock is hooked to boost but it is the 94 regulator so it probably doesn't do anything when in boost?
So far on my tune I have no to very little knock. When I do get knock in a datalog I have no more than 3 counts. I will address that very soon as I don't want to do ANY more in depth work to the engine.
Im running a good sized cooler and in the summer I don't think ive seen any intake temps over 113 (and that is heat soaked) Usually it stays in the 80's to 90's depending on actually outside temp.
Ive been running nothing but 91 octane fuel, we have the option for 100% gasoline if I choose. Unfortunatly its 87 octane. Higher can be had but its harder to find.
What ratio of regulator should I be looking for. Also is there a simple way to bypass the stock? can you dissect the stock regulator?
Do you have any pictures of your bird? and more info?
Also, I know people are leary about giving tuning specs out because people get lazy and slap them onto their tune and run it not thinking of consequences, but would you mind sending me a copy of your timing table just so I can get a rough Idea of how to build mine. Im basically running a super conservative curve as I have no idea what these engines like and error'd on the safe side.
Thanks.
Last edited by Superbee; 06-01-2014 at 08:33 AM.
I said:
You then asked:Regulator will work but you must connect vacuum hose to boost!!! For stock turbo injectors you'll never get enough fuel if the fuel pressure doesn't increase with boost.
If stock regulator is connected to boost then it's boost referenced. It is a 1:1 regulator and will increase fuel pressure 1 psi for each psi of boost.I suspect I still need to get a boost reference FPR. Stock is hooked to boost but it is the 94 regulator so it probably doesn't do anything when in boost?
You also ask:
1:1What ratio of regulator should I be looking for.
Yes. Sort of. Cut the rail end off the regulator and the female fitting end off a 91 TBI Sunbird body to engine flex hose. Weld the two parts together along with a tab to use with the factory retaining screw. I did something similar in my car so I could use the outlet of the 94 rail as the inlet in the turbo application.Also is there a simple way to bypass the stock?
Yes. There are kits available for LT1 powered cars to convert them to adjustable regulator. These kits work on many other stock GM regulators. TPIS sells them as an adjustable regulator "hat." The kit will not alter the pressure ratio but will allow you to alter the base pressure. You could reduce base pressure (allows most flow back to tank) and keep regulator disconnected from manifold if you need to install an aftermarket regulator.can you dissect the stock regulator?
I only have a couple of pictures handy.Do you have any pictures of your bird? and more info?
Top is now black.
http://home.metrocast.net/~shannen/j-car/
Old page from dialup days. Most of this is about the turbo swap into the 2.2 Cavvy but there's an old picture of the 'Bird engine compartment at the bottom. There are probably pictures and notes on Darkmuck's site (if you can find an old copy), j-body.org, and maybe a couple on v6z24.org. And there might even be some notes on gmecm or diy-efi.org from when I first started tuning it.
oh alright, didn't know it was as simple as that, I was under the impression the internals were designed different.
The Sunbird Turbo parts were not all made by GM. Instead, GM appears to have used outside contractors to manufacture the regulator, rail, lines, TB, and several other parts. That would certainly explain the price... higher than a Corvette from the same year. The regulator looks much different than a typical GM part but it's still 1:1 pressure ratio.
94 regulator interchanges with a very wide variety of cars, including many gm's.
The turbo car regulator looks different. The 94 regulator is a typical GM style regulator.
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