IS TBI back?

[daveosx]

Thanks Dave W
Is there a unix / linux software that will work with the Ostrich?
The Windows stuff is a no go for me.

Also I see a lot about the WBO2 on the nets but I am failing to understand.
Are you guys using the WBO2 on old ECMs in closed loop or as a tuning aid with an external meter/gauge ?
After reading a bit on the forums I see that you are pulling the WBO2 off an unused EGR pintle position ADC and logging it.
Are you using the data in the block learn algorithm ?

From GM ECM repair school back in the early 1980s I understood that the O2 inputs on the ECMS are Hardware preset low and high thresholds set around the narrowband 14.7 response. I thought that the O2 signal is sampled at a software preset rate and after a software preset number of samples Hi or LOW it increases or decreases the block learn for that map/rpm cell.
Is the WBO2 functioning in these systems ?

[dave w]

Thanks Dave W
Is there a unix / linux software that will work with the Ostrich?
The Windows stuff is a no go for me.

Also I see a lot about the WBO2 on the nets but I am failing to understand.
Are you guys using the WBO2 on old ECMs in closed loop or as a tuning aid with an external meter/gauge ?

From GM ECM repair school back in the early 1980s I understood that the O2 inputs on the ECMS are Hardware preset low and high thresholds set around the narrowband 14.7 response. I thought that the O2 signal is sampled at a software preset rate and after a software preset number of samples Hi or LOW it increases or decreases the block learn for that map/rpm cell.
Is the WBO2 functioning in these systems ?

Good question on using the Ostrich 2.0 with Linux. I have not used Linux. It appears Linux using "Wine" is an option for using TunerPro (http://forum.tunerpro.net/viewtopic....e06f5c2346242e). Wine information (https://www.linux.com/LEARN/how-inst...ications-linux).

WBO2 is a data tool only. WBO2 it is a tuning aid with an external meter/gauge . WBO2 data has been "hacked / reverse engineered" to stream real time into a data log. The WBO2 data in the data log Does Not affect or control BLM, the factory O2 sensor is still needed to control BLM fueling. Having the WBO2 data stream real time in the data logs, allows for frame by frame or sample by sample comparison of the Air Fuel Ratio for any given MAP / RPM cell.

The best use for WBO2 tuning is for Acceleration Enrichment aka AE (Carburetor Pump Shot) and Power Enrichment aka PE (4 barrel Carburetor Secondary opening up). The TBI computer will lock the BLM's at 128 when fueling for AE & PE. Imagine how awesome it would be to tune a carburetor for 12.5 Air Fuel Ratio, when the 4 barrel secondary opens up. Imagine using a laptop instead of changing jets to adjust for 12.5 Air Fuel Ratio! Imagine how awesome it would be to tune a carburetor to have the 4 barrel secondary open up at 50% or 60% or 70% or ??% Throttle Position with a laptop! Imagine how awesome it would be to know what the carburetor Air Fuel Ration is at WOT. I don't imagine these things, I data log with WBO2 to SEE Exactly what those Air Fuel Ratios are.

The second generation TBI computer (#16197427) is my TBI computer of choice. R.I.P 122774 http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...out-Directions!

It's fair for me to mention, I'm an EFI Tuner and Custom EFI Harness builder (aka Old School EFi LLC).

dave w

[daveosx]

Thanks Dave W

I am sitting here having a senior moment over thinking the whole thing.

The O2 sensor is just reading the O2 in the exhaust stream as long as it is up to temperature the stoichiometry should not effect the O2 reading.
The mechanical pressure regulator of the TBI is probably all thats really needed to adjust to prevent the 10% ethanol lean conditions.

If the pressure to flow rate is in the linear portion of the injector curve (14.7 - 14.2)/14.7 = .034 or 3.4% increase in fuel pressure would compensate.
So figure 5-7% increase in fuel pressure to cover enrichment this would allow block learns to return to more normal gasoline levels.

I love the carburetor references
I have always been a fuelie guy.
Even the old rochester mechanicals.

Like everyone else the jump to computers has dulled my old school memory of the physics of fast.

I was thinking of a way to enable older ECM vehicles to run the E85 for the power boost.
Started a little searching and found a great post on a DIY FLEX fuel sensor setup .
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2810122

So I am thinking ...
Maybe a second set of two TPI style injectors squirting in the same bores as the TBI.
I could trigger the second set using the ground side of the existing injectors as inputs to the arduino and a couple of Mosfets coming out.
Use the Alcohol content reading for the PWM of the AnalogWrite(output,ALK)
That would give me a fuel adder that is proportional to Alcohol content.
Now for the timing...

[daveosx]

My brain just kicked in again.
Back in the early 90s we had something of a tax dodge government inspired fad called BI-FUEL.
They where 500Bar CNG tanks feeding a TBI spacer with two Proportional valves.
If I remember correct the proportioning valves used two injection signals from the ECM.
The way the system worked was that the driver could select CNG, Gasoline or both.
On CNG the vehicles really had no power but in "hybrid mode" the truck would switch between fuels on load.

I am thinking that my E85 power adder idea could be possible from the ECM without the arduino.

[dave w]

Without overthinking things, it's true ... with enough time and money a mountain of recycled aluminum cans could be turned into a supersonic jet fighter.

On the money side of things, I think leveraging a factory flex fuel system is a modestly affordable option. My plan for flex fuel would not use TBI, I would opt for TPI instead. I would update the TPI engine to OBD2, using parts from EFI Connection https://www.eficonnection.com/home/c...x-product-line

Ok, with the 24x system installed on the TPI engine using a factory LSx computer, it's a downhill slide to configure a factory LSx flex fuel system to a TPI engine.

The 24x system uses the coil on plug ignition system, so programmable timing to a maximum of 60 degrees of dwell is available.

Why TPI not TBI, most LSx computers are running engines with 8 injectors.

The 24x system allows using OBD2 tuning software from EFI Live or HP Tuners.

dave w

[daveosx]

Yep mountain of money
I have another project I am trying to save for a Nelson LSX for my WS6.

On the cheap a lot of TBI has hit the u-pull salvage yards.

I really never liked OBDII always felt it was way too much nanny state.

Actually was thinking of making a throttle body spacer with extra injectors run off an arduino for quick power add and retain the unaltered ECM and memcal.

I am going to look at what the cheapest FLEX sensor is today at the parts store.

Enrichment curve should be easy enough to map based on % alcohol in fuel.

[dave w]

I was posting thoughts and ideas, based on proven products and software. Perhaps the options I mentioned could stir new ideas and information exchanges.

I see many challenges with a 160 baud TBI ECM, with a 4K chip.

I see affordable solutions using the OBD1 based EBL Flash System: http://www.dynamicefi.com/

Perhaps a combination of affordable salvage yard TBI Hardware combined with an aftermarket enhanced code / ECM hardware.

dave w

[lionelhutz]

The only TBI resurgence I'm seeing is the cheap aftermarket TBI systems like the Holley Sniper.

As for your truck, put the slapper bars above the spring.

[daveosx]

The slappers are no go for me
No room between the coach bottom and the spring its a suburban.
I have Zoomies that exit in the little gap between the rear door and the tire well and the truck is dropped 6 inches so the springs are only 3 inches from the floor of the truck above the spring 1.5 inches to the Zoomies frame mount.
I did come up with a torque tube design I think will work.

I have motor mounts on a 500SEC to do tomorrow.

Then I'll FAB a torque tube style rear end locator.