What should I do about my main spark table?

[rang-a-stang]

OK, I rapped on it with a hammer and it looks like I got a little knock retard. Not nearly as much as I would expect though.

[In-Tech]

There are at least 5 knock sensors for that computer. V-6, 305 manual trans, 305 auto trans, 350/454 manual trans and 350/454 auto trans. Being a different block completely you will have to see which one is more accurate in your block. Then there is also the knock sensor circuitry in your memcal

[Mr Weston]

Only a newbie, but I know the frequency of the knock 'sound' is related to bore size, and computer input is electronically filtered to listen to that particular frequency for knock detection.
I'll leave it up to you to determine if that's of relevance here.

[rang-a-stang]

Rather than start a new thread, I will hit this one. First my original issues WAS:
When I first started my truck tuning adventures, I did not have a knock sensor so I disabled all the timing retard capability by setting the "minimum temperature for knock retard" to 151C in my BIN, and promptly forgot about it. I also had retarded a bunch of the timing table because it looked like too much timing. Luckily I keep a log with every change I make to my BINs so during a look back over my notes, I saw it, put it back to 35C and added 4 degress of timing to the whole table. Now that I turned it back on, I not only have knock counts, I have timing being retarded the way it is supposed to!!! WOOO HOOO!!!

MY QUESTION NOW, THOUGH:
I have done a tuning run with my timing tables and have data on my knock retard. Do I just take that Knock retard number (running avergage), subtract it from the value in the timing tables, install new table in my truck, rinse, and repeat? Am I looking for 0's or just less than say .5? Is it really that easy to tune timing? I feel like I am over simplifying it...

[dave w]

Usually spark changes of 1 or 2 degrees will change the knock retard averages. It can be challenging to reduce knock retard, because increasing or decreasing Spark Advance will affect knock retard averages. Sometimes adding Spark Advance will eliminate knock retard averages, which seems counter-intuitive.

dave w

[rang-a-stang]

Copy that. When I was trying to see why my knock sensor was not reading, I added a bunch of timing to my tables. I started with 454 tables and having an over square engine, I need more then 454. So I think I am in the ball park.

[Mr Weston]

Usually spark changes of 1 or 2 degrees will change the knock retard averages. It can be challenging to reduce knock retard, because increasing or decreasing Spark Advance will affect knock retard averages. Sometimes adding Spark Advance will eliminate knock retard averages, which seems counter-intuitive.

dave w

Pardon for butting in, but I've just started playing with tuning LS1, and spark seems harder to tune than fuel, at the moment.
Dave W, would it be fair to say that having the tune take timing out due to knock detect costs you more performance than not having quite enough advance and no knock in the first place?
I base that on observation from logging. I have a 'test dyno' bit of road that I log acceleration from 2 to 5 000 rpm in 3rd gear on, and use time scale to measure performance, quicker the better.
Obviously no correction for airtemp, barometric etc, but pretty indicative, and 'real world' conditions.
I am assuming more advance is more power, but upon reflection of that, maybe that's not true.
And am I placing too much faith in my test method, as well?
Again, sorry for jumping in, not wanting to hijack your post rang-a-stang.

[rang-a-stang]

You're good Mr Weston (not hi-jacking at all). This is all information I am hoping to discuss.

My understanding from reading other threads on timing is most folks will continue to add timing until they get high knock counts and retard, then back the cell(s) down just a tad. There is a finite point where there is too much timing. We want the max timing possible but as soon as we hit knock, we are losing efficiency (obviously there is knock from other conditions besides timing but for this conversation we are speaking purely of timing).