Learning Curve 2.0 - ughh

[trlrider]

Evening all! Got my engines swapped out and everything seems to be working, except it is a slug. Not the power I am use to out of this engine when it was carburetor, and even weaker then the old worn out TBI that I pulled out.

This engine does have better cast iron heads (not vortec, yet), Holley Street Dominator intake, TBI adapter, and original TBI. The only oddity is Big Cap HEI with a divorced module ( module is mounted on the firewall.

Feels like a timing issue, but that should not be. Base timing is set at zero, and does not fluctuate (ESC wire disconnected) The old school in me wants to bump the timing, but I want to understand what the data is telling me first. Especially the knock counts and retard!

Knock counts are showing at 225 plus at idle, Knock retard is at 20 to 25% at idle! Why?
I do not hear any knock (per-detonation). The Knock sensor was pulled from the old engine and put in the new one in the same water jacket drain.

Data Acquisition with TunerProRT v5, I think I did it correct, but not sure. Reading the help files again, and again just to make sure.

Files attached: The one marked 1st Log was a short drive down the road and back, check engine light cam on which was a EGR Failure code (EGR is not hooked up and I have not deleted it in the tune yet)
2nd Log was a short look and see sitting in the driveway trying to figure out the knock count and knock retard at idle.
Maybe that sensor is bad, but it did not give me any grief in the old engine.

Original and Current PCM is a '8625, BLCP, $E6 mask. Nothing has been tweaked yet!

Note: The truck ran the same (weak) with a '7427, BJLH, $OD mask. For some reason that file did not save.

Thanks!

[dave w]

Gearhead-efi link for $E6 information: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-E6

Chip code BLCP is not listed in the above link.

It's possible a modified timing table will improve performance.

Timing tables pictures below.

dave w

Stoc Vortec L31Stock Vortec Timing Table.jpg

Stock TPI L98TPI Timing Table.jpg

Modified TBI L05Modified Timing Table.jpg

[trlrider]

Thanks Dave!
Studying how to do various things. And yes, that .bin does not show up anywhere.
I do have a '7427 with a BJLH (stock) .bin from a 1994 and the $OD mask.

Thinking about putting it in there and leaving it in there since the $OD mask seems more popular. < thoughts?

Will study you timing suggestions when at lunch today or when I get off work. Thank You!

[trlrider]

Also on the knock retard, I found where that the log may have been reading voltage and not actual retard. Changed that to read actual degree according to the .adx file I am using for the next time I try to log.

[dave w]

Link to a gearhead-efi thread with the 1998 Vortec timing table copy / pasted into an Excel Spreadsheet: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-Throttle-ONLY

Disclaimer . . . Informational use only

To much timing = not a good thing

Not enough timing = not a good thing

dave w

[trlrider]

Link to a gearhead-efi thread with the 1998 Vortec timing table copy / pasted into an Excel Spreadsheet: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-Throttle-ONLY

Disclaimer . . . Informational use only

To much timing = not a good thing

Not enough timing = not a good thing

dave w

Thanks Dave W for the bump in the correct direction.
Was studying this and working on a updated file to burn and found out my Burn2 was not working correctly.
1st would not erase the supplied chip, thus would not write the new file and confirm. Ughh!
Also noted that the two Memcals that I have for the 7427 $OD mask appear to not be reading correctly. The main spark vs. MAP vs. RPM were showing 79.8 degrees timing from 3200 rpm up, which I do not think would be correct based on downloads from this forum.
Also many scalars were maxed out on a unmolested .bin that should not have been such as EGR settings.

Have messaged Moates to see if there is a solution to my issue with the Burn2.
Meanwhile the Sub is in limbo until I can burn chips.

Thanks Dave W. for the help!

[dave w]

Possibly the Burn 2 chip addressing and buffer addressing is not correct? Example below if for the '9625 64K 27SF512 PCM.

Chip Addressing
Start Address in Hex = 000000
End Addressing in Hex = 00FFFF

Buffer Addressing
Start Address in Hex = 000000
End Addressing in Hex = 00FFFF

It's embarrassing to ask:
Is the chip correctly installed in the Burn 2.
Is the correct chip selected to read / write / erase?

dave w

[trlrider]

Possibly the Burn 2 chip addressing and buffer addressing is not correct? Example below if for the '9625 64K 27SF512 PCM.

Chip Addressing
Start Address in Hex = 000000
End Addressing in Hex = 00FFFF

Buffer Addressing
Start Address in Hex = 000000
End Addressing in Hex = 00FFFF

It's embarrassing to ask:
Is the chip correctly installed in the Burn 2.
Is the correct chip selected to read / write / erase?

dave w

Morning Dave!
The addressing is correct for the chips. Have tripled checked that as it was my first error when trying to read the memcals when If first received the Burn2

The chips are the SST 27SF512's that Moates sent me with my order. The chips are set away from the zif handle as outlined in the instructions.
Tried both chips.
When Erase is selected is shows successful really quick.
When verify chip empty it takes a few seconds then tells me the chip is not empty.

Isn't learning fun?

On another note, I may have figured out part of my problem outside of the tune. With my modified distributor, it is possible when I locked the advance I got the rotor out of phase with the stator. Will have to research that this evening.

Thanks, Louis

[trlrider]

Tech Support at Moates is 1st Class.
poked and prodded a bit with Team Viewer, changed some firmware settings and bingo. Working as advertised now.

[PlayingWithTBI]

Tech Support at Moates is 1st Class.
poked and prodded a bit with Team Viewer, changed some firmware settings and bingo. Working as advertised now.

Do you happen to remember which settings were changed?

[trlrider]

Stepped the firmware back one update to 1.00.3518.00 now!

Edit: trial and error update.
For my particular computer (Win10 64-bit HP) I found that if my port latency was set at anything other then 1, the data was getting scrambled on read and programming the chips.
This is in settings, device manager, ports, under the advanced tab.

[trlrider]

Continuing the learning and understanding.

My factory PCM (8625) has the BLCP .bin with a $E6 mask. That .bin appears to be oddity as it is not listed on this forum under that PCM
So I have been looking at a 7427 PCM that I have with the BJLH .bin and $OD mask to as a learning PCM and to possible swap into the Sub as it appears to be better liked then the 8625.

Anyway when I read the original BJLH chip, I see some oddity's compared to the same .bin file type downloaded from the forum for the 7427.

Inquiring because I don't want to make changes and burn a chip, and find out the hard way I am somehow corrupting the data in the transfer.

One for instance is the Main Spark Table vs MAP vs RPM below:
20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 18.3 17.2 12.3 11.3 9.1 6.3 4.2 3.2 2.1 1.1 0.0 -0.7
20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 18.3 17.2 12.3 11.3 9.1 6.3 4.2 3.2 2.1 1.1 0.0 0.0
20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 16.2 14.1 10.2 9.1 5.3 4.2 2.1 1.1 0.0 0.0
20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 18.3 15.1 13.0 10.2 7.0 5.3 3.2 1.1 0.0 0.0
20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 18.3 16.2 14.1 11.3 9.1 7.0 5.3 3.2 2.1 1.1
21.1 21.1 21.1 21.1 21.1 21.1 21.1 19.0 18.3 15.1 13.0 11.3 9.1 7.0 5.3 4.2 4.2
22.1 22.1 22.1 22.1 22.1 22.1 22.1 20.0 19.0 16.2 14.1 12.3 10.2 9.1 7.0 6.3 6.3
23.2 23.2 23.2 23.2 23.2 23.2 23.2 22.1 21.1 18.3 16.2 14.1 12.3 11.3 9.1 9.1 8.1
25.3 25.3 25.3 25.3 25.3 25.3 25.3 23.2 22.1 19.0 17.2 15.1 13.0 12.3 11.3 10.2 40.4
36.9 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8
79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 40.4 36.9 79.8
79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8
79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 40.4 36.9 79.8 79.8 79.8
79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8
79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 40.4 36.9 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8
79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8
79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 40.4 36.9 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8 79.8

The same table downloaded from this site is:

20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 18.3 17.2 12.3 11.3 9.1 6.3 4.2 3.2 2.1 1.1 0.0 -0.7
20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 18.3 17.2 12.3 11.3 9.1 6.3 4.2 3.2 2.1 1.1 0.0 0.0
20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 16.2 14.1 10.2 9.1 5.3 4.2 2.1 1.1 0.0 0.0
20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 18.3 15.1 13.0 10.2 7.0 5.3 3.2 1.1 0.0 0.0
20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 20.0 18.3 16.2 14.1 11.3 9.1 7.0 5.3 3.2 2.1 1.1
21.1 21.1 21.1 21.1 21.1 21.1 21.1 19.0 18.3 15.1 13.0 11.3 9.1 7.0 5.3 4.2 4.2
22.1 22.1 22.1 22.1 22.1 22.1 22.1 20.0 19.0 16.2 14.1 12.3 10.2 9.1 7.0 6.3 6.3
23.2 23.2 23.2 23.2 23.2 23.2 23.2 22.1 21.1 18.3 16.2 14.1 12.3 11.3 9.1 9.1 8.1
25.3 25.3 25.3 25.3 25.3 25.3 25.3 23.2 22.1 19.0 17.2 15.1 13.0 12.3 11.3 10.2 9.1
26.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 24.3 23.2 22.1 18.3 17.2 16.2 14.1 13.0 12.3 11.3
27.1 27.1 27.1 27.1 27.1 27.1 27.1 26.0 24.3 22.1 20.0 18.3 17.2 15.1 14.1 13.0 12.3
30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 25.3 23.2 21.1 20.0 19.0 17.2 17.2 16.2 15.1
30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 26.0 24.3 22.1 21.1 20.0 18.3 18.3 18.3 17.2
30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 26.0 24.3 22.1 21.1 20.0 18.3 17.2 16.2 15.1
30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 26.0 24.3 23.2 22.1 21.1 19.0 18.3 17.2 16.2
30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 26.0 24.3 23.2 22.1 21.1 19.0 18.3 17.2 16.2
30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.2 26.0 24.3 23.2 22.1 21.1 19.0 18.3 17.2 16.2

Starting at 3200 RPM with the table from my junkyard pcm, what is with all the 79.8?
I have the same experience reading a BDJY memcal, both are $OD mask.
Both with the same $OD .xdf and .adf files from the forum!

Is the file being corrupted on the read, or is that common on a factory file from a stock vehicle?
Trying to learn what is going on.
FYI - this occurred before and after the Moates technician worked on my Burn2 firmware.

Thanks in advance!

[dave w]

The 4L60E is either definition file $E6 or $OD. The 4L80E is either definition file $31 or $OE.

Looking at a .bin file with the INCORRECT definition file (.xdf) is the most likely explanation why the spark values starting at 3200 RPM's are all 79.8 degrees.

Disasters can happen at the speed of a mouse click!

dave w

[trlrider]

The 4L60E is either definition file $E6 or $OD. The 4L80E is either definition file $31 or $OE.

Looking at a .bin file with the INCORRECT definition file (.xdf) is the most likely explanation why the spark values starting at 3200 RPM's are all 79.8 degrees.

Disasters can happen at the speed of a mouse click!

dave w

BJLH and BDJY should both be $OD according to the '7427 page. That is the .xdf I am using.
The latest one posted by oneprojecttoomany here:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...7&d=1361028399

Both sets above read with the same .xdf.
Have gotten the same with the $OD .xdf from the tunerpro pages.

Will try opening it with a different..xdf at lunch. Maybe my memcals are marked incorrectly. But two from different salvage yards?

That is what I have not figured out. Still poking but was hoping someone has had this before and could point me in the correct direction.

Thanks

[dave w]

It appears my copy of BDJY is $E6, see attached.

BDJY has been superseded to BLCP, with a release date of 04/26/94

dave w