Chips in a OBDII PCM?

[JeepsAndGuns]

So what would be the benefit of doing this? I know nothing about OBD2.
I'm guessing this simply removes the need for flashing through the obd port? What has caused the desire to do this?

[EagleMark]

You got it, get around cost or avalaibility of re-flash through OBDII port.

[1project2many]

The Moates Roadrunner DIY kit is expensive but not out of control.

Black box Vortec instructions to modify for flashing without using OBDII were on gmecm years ago. Steve Ravet did some initial work with this.
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/ecm_info/32bit/dumpflash/

I've been trying to tell people for years that OBDII is a step backward for tuning if you're only using the OBDII connection for programming. You lose all ability for real time emulating and changing the cal takes more time than burning and changing an eprom. The BDM flash is likely to be faster but Steve's instructions, like many from tech guys, make a lot of assumptions about knowledge and skill level of the user.

The ability to pull the chips out and make changes, however, means you will always have a way to modify your calibrations even if software to change through OBDII port is stopped. It's definitely worthwhile to work out a solution. Here's the first part of a hardware solution, a header which allows you to move the flash chip off the board:
http://www.moates.net/roadrunner-diy...on-header.html

Then you might be able to use a ribbon cable to move the connection point away from the board. Looks like at least one person on thirdgen is doing something similar. Luckily a 44 pin ribbon cable is fairly standard in the PC world so short pre-made cables are easy to locate:
http://www.cablesonline.com/44pinlapinri.html


Some good reading:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....-install-today
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....t-installation
From here, there is a nice link to a page with pictures (because we all love pictures)
http://www.florida4x4.com/tech/rr-guts/

Of course, we're not looking to install the Roadrunner, only to install something such as a ZIF socket or ribbon cable. One approach might be to modify a GM memcal and install a ZIF or the proper flash chip on one end while leaving the other end unpopulated. Pin spacing would determine how difficult this is.

There are several tools available which appear to allow programming the PSOP44 44 pin flash device using a standard eprom programmer. They appear to be from China but maybe the cost is worth it:
http://www.dhgate.com/chip-programme...112a84964.html
http://www.oobdii.com/other-obd2-veh...-socket-psop44
Here's one for a Willems programmer:
http://tekdevice.com/chapter2/index....&product_id=55
Here's one that you complete:http://www.sivava.com/B09_Adapter.html

Of course, once you get this done it all begs the question of why can't you use your existing emulator? I'm sure some digging around might find those answers or enough clues to figure it out. Problems with timing, communications speed, and device storage capacity are all possibilities that come to mind. But one step at a time, of course.

HTH

[Lextech]

I have the Moates LS1b RoadRunner PCM but, haven't used it yet. I have been told that you can flash it with a 512kb (99-02) or a 1mb (03-07) calibration. My truck is put away for the winter but, I hope to play around with the RR this summer.

Jeff

[EagleMark]

I've got a RR sitting here as well waiting to install in my vortec truck thanks to your work on the conversion!

But I've actually broke some new ground with the 98-00 vortec PCM on EFI Live forum and have the Calc VE Calc MAF and almost the AutuTune tutorials working for the Vortec. One piece of info has been missing the whole time to make it work, it's the commanded AFR! It's named wrong in the Scan Tool so no one has been able to make it work. Right now we have a request in for MORE PAREMTERS, which are there, just not installed by EFI Live. Right now I'm using a cross of EFI Live, TunerCat and Hex from the Disasembly and it all works!

Once it's done the Road Runner is going in!

[hmilycar]

About this theme,I think I will give you a suggestion and offer you some information on Chip Tuning Tools .Them will be useful!
If you want to know other obd2 tools,you can visit www.obd2tool.com

[dave w]

About this theme,I think I will give you a suggestion and offer you some information on Chip Tuning Tools .Them will be useful!
If you want to know other obd2 tools,you can visit www.obd2tool.com

Hardware looks applicable, but hardware alone is not a complete package for OBD II Tuning! Any OBD II data logging software available?

dave w

[EagleMark]

Thanks for the in depth info 1project2many. This puts it all into perspective!

The idea of doing that and using the AutoProm or other emulator is intriging...

[RobertISaar]

not that i've opened one to find out, but i THINK the largest BIN the autoPROM will deal with is 64KB.

[EagleMark]

Well I just tried to Upload a 512k bin to AutoProm and it says I messed up?

[EagleMark]

Need bigger chip?

[JeepsAndGuns]

You got it, get around cost or avalaibility of re-flash through OBDII port.

Still not knowing anything about OBD2 or flash chips. What makes it so bad to flash through the OBD port, that we are looking at removing the chip to flash it? Seems like your removing the need for buying a cable and software to flash the pcm, and instead making it to where you now have to buy a chip burner, cable and software.
I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, but I guess I am just not understanding whats going on.

[dave w]

Still not knowing anything about OBD2 or flash chips. What makes it so bad to flash through the OBD port, that we are looking at removing the chip to flash it? Seems like your removing the need for buying a cable and software to flash the pcm, and instead making it to where you now have to buy a chip burner, cable and software.
I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, but I guess I am just not understanding whats going on.

I've seen several LS engine swaps with completely stock engines in Off-Road applications. Many of these Off-Road LS engine swaps require the PCM be shipped off to someone for the Off-Road flash programming. I think a ZIF modified LS 0411 allows for a lower cost option, than shipping off the LS 0411 for Off-Road programming.

dave w

[EagleMark]

Your understanding the topic. Software to do OBDII is EXPENSIVE and then per PCM license fees.

Guys have already done an LS1 XDF for TunerPro, there are also ADX files being worked on. But uploading through OBDII port poses hardware and software issues, so if there was a chip! The Willems GQ-4X will write it!

[RobertISaar]

http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/stor...supportICs.asp

willems 3 and 4 series supported devices list.

both the 512K and 1M chips are on that list.