TBI Chip 1983 CJ 7 with 1990 350 TBI having chip proram issues

[dave w]

Timing tables are important. The pics below are a comparison of some chips I have experience with.

One follows conventional 3D timing, and another seems less conventional?

dave w

[devind]

Thought I would post some updates.

Up until about 3 or 4 weeks ago I continued to give TBIchips every opportunity to get the program correct and after 6 chips he did finally get it to run pretty good but it still had some problems and I could tell from other post on here and the way he was answering some of my questions going any farther was most likely going to be a waste of my time and a waste of gas doing data logs.

However Dave W of Old School EFI has come to the rescue. He has programed me a couple of chips and has gotten it very close clearing up many of the issues I was having. I can’t think him enough; even while I was still dealing with TBIchip he gave me advice and helped me to understand some of the data I was recording.

I have been doing a lot of data logging and have been careful to make sure things like timing and fuel pressure are staying the same. But I kept noticing my fuel pressure changing slightly from time to time and also noticed my spark plugs readings indicated that the AC r44lts spark plugs are too cold. I think the fuel pressure issue is due to running the stock spring with the adjustable set up I made. It is easy to adjust from 13lbs and down but when I get above 14lbs it gets real sensitive and hard to fine tune. I think the spring is too soft so I ordered a new 15lbs spring; hopefully it will be in tomorrow. I feel pretty confident once I get these issues fixed and some more data logging Dave will be about one or two chips away from getting it dialed in.

I have to admit I have been very tempted to buy the hardware from Moates so that I could try and program my own chip and I have no question with the help available on this site I could have done it. But for as busy as I stay already I don’t know where I would have found the time. So going with Old School EFI for me was the right choice.

Once Dave gets my final tune programed I will make sure to let everyone know how good it turns out.

[devind]

Wanted to post some updates.

I have been working with dave w and with his tuning skills he has gotten everything sorted out and running real good now. However during this 6 month ordeal I have learned that the tuning process can last as long as you want to keep messing with it. Dave has been very patent with me and between him and this forum I now have a pretty basic understanding of the tuning process. Well at least on my 7747 ecm.
It is so funny now because everywhere I go in the Jeep, whoever is riding shoot gun has a lap top in their lap recording data with TunerPro.

I just recently started really understanding Dave’s method of tuning using excel and decided to get a Burn2 so that I can start burning my on chips.

Dave sold me a used ecm with the chip adapter already soldered in it and a since I wasn’t running a knock sensor he sent me a sensor and ESC. This past weekend I got it all installed, it will be a big help if I decide to start playing with timing tables.

Along the way I have had to address a lot of small issues; like building an adjustable regulator with correct spring, machined a TBI adapter to replace the vacuum leaking one I had and replaced a worn-out distributor. Plus I have had somewhat of a cooling issue ever since I put the 350 in the Jeep and it only got worst with the new engine. I had been running an aluminum 2 row cross flow radiator with an electric fan. But over the weekend after some mods to the grill shell I replaced it with a new aluminum 3 row down flow with an external trans cooler and a stock clutch fan. Then I had to build a custom 2 piece aluminum shroud. Hopefully my cooling woes are over with.

Here are some pics of some of the things I have done or had to build.

Adjustable regulator I made





TBI Adapter I machined





ECU mounted in my console I built


With wire cover installed

With the ECU cover installed


ESC and knock sensor installed with brass elbow




New Radiator install

I had to cut the mounting tabs off of new radiator and weld on new ones to fit the grill


I had to trim some out of the grill so that I could mount the radiator more forward and have plenty of room to run a stock fan.


Welded some tabs on the back of the grill so that I could mount the trans cooler directly to the grill




The 2 piece shroud I built mounted to the radiator




I still have a pair of Dana 60 I narrowed 5 “ with all the hardcore goodies installed waiting to go under it. This summer will make 4 years since I have gotten to go wheeling around Silverton Colorado. Next year I will be there.

[devind]

I have really been having fun learning to use TunerPro and discovering all the cool features it offers.
I have had a good tune in the Jeep for a while now (Thanks to Dave w). But I keep making subtle changes each time it seems to make improvements. Recently I noticed that my VE tables had some upper level cells at 99.61. I realized this meant I needed to add more fuel pressure.
So I used Marks TBI Calculator and it confirmed I needed more fuel psi.

I went from 15 psi to 16psi keeping BPW at 116 with an injector bias of .396. Then spent some time retuning the VE table and had the BLMs running really consistently at or very close to 128 throughout. The VE table still has some upper cells around 94. This definitely made an improvement and is probably just about perfect. But me not being one to leave well enough alone I think it my need a little more. I believe with engine build I have, it should be close to 300 hp at 5000 rpm.

So if I am using the calculator correctly. (I am assuming that BPC is the same as BPW)
I need to set the fuel pressure to 17 psi with a BPW of 113 and a injector bias of .408 to acomadate 300 hp.
Could some one with more knowledge than I, look at this and make sure I am using the calculator correctly. (I had my injector tested resulting in 69.3 lbs @ 14.5 psi)


TBI Calculator.jpg

[EagleMark]

Yes BPW and BPC are same.

The way your doing this is correct. But you have to remember whenever you reduce the BPC you are taking away fuel. These calculations are for correct size injectors on engine rated HP so a little fudging is in order. Also the lower BPC is the higher the RPM will go before injectors going static = always open.

WHen doing your data logs at WOT high RPM watch Injector Duty Cycle % in history tables.

[devind]

Yes BPW and BPC are same.

The way your doing this is correct. But you have to remember whenever you reduce the BPC you are taking away fuel. These calculations are for correct size injectors on engine rated HP so a little fudging is in order. Also the lower BPC is the higher the RPM will go before injectors going static = always open.

When doing your data logs at WOT high RPM watch Injector Duty Cycle % in history tables.

Okay Thanks,

I very seldom will ever run this thing much over 4200 rpm. But for tuning purposes I occasionally have ran it up to 5000 rpm. This is actually one of the things that made me realize I needed to make a change because I noticed it took the injector duty cycle up to 96%.

So according to the calculator I will increase fuel pressure, reduce the bpw and increase the injector bias to correct the problem.



Another question while I got you.

I am still planning on buying a wide band and an emulator. Dave said in his opinion a wide band and an Ostrich 2 is all I need and I put a lot of value into anything Dave tells me.
However I keep getting hung up on the fact I can link the wide band through the auto prom and into TunerPro. To me this seems like a really cool feature.

When you link the wide band into TunerPro does it actually allow you to record the wide band data with the other data or does it just allow you to view it while recording data?

[EagleMark]

Just because you seldom run above 4200 RPM, does not mean it should not be tuned. There's always the days when testosterone runs high and the foot get's heavy! It's also the worst part to run lean.

Even if you have PE turned off? It's hard to tune the upper RPM because it goes OL, so no BLM feedback. This is where the wide band is the only tool that works! You can get an idea from NB voltage in this situation and look to keep it around .850 to .950 volt. Still not accurate like a WB.

There was an issue with recorded data from AutoProm AD channels when I did this write up...
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...up-in-TunerPro!
It was only 160 Baud systems like your 1227747, but 8192 Baud worked fine. IIRC it has been fixed by TunerPro?

If you can't get data in like if you have an Ostrich then you need to log AFR with other software, like Innovate LogWorks. Since most of what you do with WB is WOT (you've already done all other by BLM feedback from Narrow Band O2 sensor) it's fairly easy to use those logs and adjust the PE tables. Remember PE tables are based off 14.7 AFR, if you've changed your Stoich/Desired AFR to E fuel and 14.13, then a good starting point for the PE table is 11.9. This equates to Lambda .86 Same as if you used gasoline /non E and had 14.7 Desired and 12.5 in PE table it would still read .86 Lambda.