I have those notes as well. It seems someone figured out how to disable EGR with 3 values (on low vac, on high vac, and TPS%), when it should only take the Enable Temp which is where I found this issue!
Then the Coolant temp conversion issue...
I have those notes as well. It seems someone figured out how to disable EGR with 3 values (on low vac, on high vac, and TPS%), when it should only take the Enable Temp which is where I found this issue!
Then the Coolant temp conversion issue...
1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
-= =-
Okay Mark, when you have time, look at the log just before your truck dies for fueling. I think that it may be part of the EGR correction VS Vacuum VS EGR D.C. I haven't completely figured out that table, but it looks like it gets to that table with the D.C. = 0, but is assuming a D.C. of 30% If that is the case, then it takes away fuel and your truck dies. Not positive that is it yet, but preliminary look at it indicates that may be happening. LMK
Square body stepsides forever!!!
It's as simple as using the lookup chart you posted from the ALDL DS file.But in TunerPro XDF looking at:
LD299 FCB 64 ; xxC COOL, Min for CLS LP Enable
Hex is 40h, TP shows in calculated view as 64d. Is it as simple as the decimal value shown for hex is Celcius?
40 hex is 64 decimal. Lookup 64 decimal on the chart and it crosses to 80 deg C.
From AFBW:
LD1B3 FCB 199 ; 20c COOL FOR EGR ENABLE (1K PU) TBL 3
From AKMJ:
LD1B3 FCB 139 ; c COOL FOR EGR ENABLE (1K PU) TBL 3 <-- 45C
From ANMW:
LD1B3 FCB 131 ; 48c COOL FOR EGR ENABLE (1k pu) TBL 3
The values all match up.
That table is the conversion. It could also be written as :That table you listed seems a little off to go all the way to 200*C. That would be a significant difference in the conversion. ?
The additional value above the maximum temp read by the CTS (152 deg) is "padding" to complete the lookup table. Without it, in case of an error caused by unexpected incorrect resistance (think Ebay $1.99 Power Mod!), the ecm could accidentally look up a value that's actually another variable.Code:
A/D HEX DEGREES COUNTS COUNTS Deg C ------- ------ ------- 255 FF -40 251 FB -30 250 FA -25 247 F7 -20 245 F5 -15 241 F1 -10 237 ED -5 231 E7 0 225 E1 5 218 DA 10 209 D1 15 199 C7 20 189 BD 25 177 B1 30 165 A5 35 152 98 40 139 8B 45 126 7E 50 114 72 55 102 66 60 92 5C 65 81 51 70 72 48 75 64 40 80 56 38 85 50 32 90 44 2C 95 39 27 100 34 22 105 30 1E 110 26 1A 115 23 17 120 21 15 125 18 12 130 16 10 135 14 0E 140 13 0D 145 12 0C 150 0 00 200
Neither end is wrong. The "extra" values just complete the table. And FWIW when I lived in MT I saw -40F and below regularly enough to know it shows as -43C on the scantool and it sets a CTS code since "it just can't be that cold out for that long!"Since it's also non linear which end is wrong? Or both ends? As long as the middle is accurate this is what matters. How many times do you see -40 or +200 Celsius?
Which is why my notes say to use Vac and TPS values to disable EGR. But setting that table to the same values as BPW and making sure EGR can't open means fueling won't change even if ecm is commanding EGR.I believe it is still on in many cases where a guy turned EGR off by EGR enable temp. Wonder why you go lean? Opps, 70% of fuel because of EGR...
Last edited by 1project2many; 03-26-2013 at 04:32 AM.
That explains a lot... except the numbers you used above were for Closed Loop Enable Temp.
LD299 FCB 64 ; xxC COOL, Min for CLS LP Enable
In the disassembly this is one that does not have "(1k pu) TBL 3" and the vehicle enters CL at 64C ? Not 80C as the lookup would suggest.
1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
-= =-
Now more confusion in the conversion based of AD table.
Not sure what N and E are?The actual conversion from a GM paper is N = (E + 40) * 256 / 192.
Newer masks use 0.75000 * X + -40.000 where 75 is 192 divided by the 256
So we are back to 192 and not what the AD table3 which has temps from -40 to 200 which is 240, not 192?
Ahhh! Now I re read your post it is just padding above 152C, this is why 192 is total, 152 + the -40 = 192 and not 240? Right?
1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
-= =-
Didn't catch that.the numbers you used above were for Closed Loop Enable Temp.
LD299 FCB 64 ; xxC COOL, Min for CLS LP Enable
The post says what N and E are. One is "Real world" number. Other is "engineering unit."Not sure what N and E are?
For $42 the conversion is posted with the table. It's a lookup table and it's not linear which means this formula doesn't apply.Now more confusion in the conversion based of AD table.The actual conversion from a GM paper is N = (E + 40) * 256 / 192.
Same thing. But as I warned, different ecm's handle CTS differently in hardware so hopping from mask to mask, ecm to ecm, maybe not such a good idea.Newer masks use 0.75000 * X + -40.000 where 75 is 192 divided by the 256
Last edited by 1project2many; 03-26-2013 at 02:08 PM.
So I was curious to see how the pay for software handled this issue. Turns out it doesn't. The CTS values that use the lookup table are not available for modification. Well, so much for that.
Can TP load multiple files to edit as one calibration? Maybe we can use a lookup table and link the CTS values to that somehow. The lookup table can be saved as a separate "segment" of the calibration and it loads each time you load the .bin file...
You can compare another bin file, use it to copy and paste, but nothing like your describing?
Can't build a lookup table because TP will only use space on bin...
Could add the AD Lookup table to Parameter comments of each parameter? Found another fool proof way is using a Patch, there's options to add XDF items in several forms, one is a Patch. I already built one for Spark Advance and BPW to be added to data stream in place of 02 cross counts and Prom ID, works sweet, no way to make a mistake (if built right) then just use it again to remove patch. This could be fool proof way to turn things on/off if we know exactly what temp/hex they turn on off.
Still does not help the actual Parameter from showing an accurate temperature, not sure it ever will? Maybe they should all be referred to look at comments to set as per AD lookup?
There is one other option that I have no idea what it's for or how to apply it, X Y function? If you right click in Parmeters you can add new XDF item and one is this x y function...
1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
-= =-
That X Y function is what I was looking at. That and maybe I could get creative with referencing values elsewhere in the calibration.
The only other thing I can think of is to display the value in decimal and make dang sure there's a note visible that says "use lookup table for correct value."
Well I just spent about 3 hours coming up with an equation, a function really, that comes pretty darn close to the lookup table you posted. First I plotted it in AutoCad, to see just what type of curve it looked like, then I started manipulating it on this page:
Function Grapher and Calculator
Try this:
(-.033x+5.1)^3-.00055x^2-.09x+65.
I will graph it on my TI-85 and trace it to see how close it really is, later when I am not so tired.
Last edited by gregs78cam; 03-29-2013 at 11:30 AM.
1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s
Well I don't doubt your math skills, but TunerPRo does not like that at all! Once I use it, raw hex changes to 80 and calculated turns to 69c, doesn't matter what the hex was? Take it out and hex goes back to what it was, hex should never change because of a conversion, only the calculated view should.
So I added an X to (X-.033x+5.1)^3-.00055x^2-.09x+65 and it was exactly opposite correct on AD chart, before TunerPro freaked out again?
1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
-= =-
You say it's opposite, like if you inverted one column in the posted table? I'll have to work on it some more when I have time.
1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s
Yes, I got it to work twice and looked at the AD table, compared to what hack said and it was inverted. Then TP went weird on me again? Don't know if it's my TP, or one of the math symbols? Your conversion keeps telling it to look up at prior post! ^ LOL!
AD count was 218 which should be 10c
But it spit out 159c which is about AD count 10
1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
-= =-
Greg, that's some pretty creative thinking. You can actually see the curve in TP in the .adx file. By choosing acquisition then edit definition then lookup tables and table graph. If the formula is entered into excel and plotted against the lookup table the center is close but at the ends it doesn't track as well. For a hex value of 12 the formula returns 167 and the actual temp should be 150. In fact all of the calculations are off by more than 10 degrees from 95 deg C to the top of the chart. I think the final value of 0 = 200 is throwing off the generated formula on that end. At the low end of temp 255 should equal -40 degrees and the formula returns -30. That's a fair amount of error. But, and this is a big "but," we're really close between the temps of -25 and +40 degrees so what you did put us on the right track.
Mark... Tunerpro doesn't appear to like exponential functions. It can handle the beginning of the formula ok, (-0.033 * X + 5.1) , but it chokes when I try to add ^ 3. So the solution seems easy, just make it happen manually. To replace ^3 you can do this: (-0.033 * X + 5.1)*(-0.033 * X + 5.1)*(-0.033 * X + 5.1). Same thing and it works just uses more characters to type. Looking at the rest of Greg's formula, it doesn't look like there's anything hard to duplicate like "^-.22" or "^1/2" so we can replace the next one, 0.00055*X^2, with (0.00055*X)*(0.00055*X). The rest of the math is fairly basic so the entire formula looks like this:
(-0.033 * X + 5.1)*(-0.033 * X + 5.1)*(-0.033 * X + 5.1)-(0.00055*X)*(0.00055*X)-0.09*X+65.00000
This seems to give the same values as Greg's original formula when I plotted it in Excel so at least we're on the right track.
Greg, the only request I have is can we maybe get a little closer? It might help to plot more data points and fill in some missing values in the table. I'd try but my student version of Matlab from 2002 timed out and I doubt I can get another at the same price. Here's the chart of actual temp vs calculated:
Code:Dec. Temp Calculated Temp 255 -40 -30.14303088 251 -30 -24.48907949 250 -25 -23.130875 247 -20 -19.18549165 245 -15 -16.66077163 241 -10 -11.85685448 237 -5 -7.368801361 231 0 -1.198779667 225 5 4.338171875 218 10 10.05995342 209 15 16.36256143 199 20 22.15233544 189 25 26.87357165 177 30 31.43218098 165 35 35.13518638 152 40 38.6133927 139 45 41.9984557 126 50 45.76409689 114 55 49.98754647 102 60 55.3115149 92 65 60.85763814 81 70 68.39727848 72 75 75.88135942 64 80 83.66449427 56 85 92.62673901 50 90 100.188625 44 95 108.5224338 39 100 116.0905388 34 105 124.2539974 30 110 131.231531 26 115 138.6211405 23 120 144.4420738 21 125 148.4586571 18 130 154.6917862 16 135 158.9885572 14 140 163.4004221 13 145 165.6500537 12 150 167.9291057 0 200 197.651
Last edited by 1project2many; 03-30-2013 at 08:53 AM.
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